042: Leo Sgovio: Unraveling Amazon Selling Secrets & Harnessing the Power of Analytics

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Welcome everyone to the Brand Fortress HQ podcast.

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I'm your host, Jon Stojan, and today I'm joined by my two co-hosts, Matt Atkins and Matt Kaufman, and our guest is Leo Scovio, an experienced Amazon seller and the founder of Spliced.

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Leo is an accomplished entrepreneur in the e-commerce and digital marketing sectors, known for his expertise in Google SEO, the Amazon algorithm and influencer marketing, which I think we'll probably talk a little bit about today.

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With certifications in Google Ads, Adobe Analytics and software development, Leo has built a robust skillset that propels him to success in the e-commerce industry.

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Leo, welcome to the podcast.

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Thank you guys.

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It's a pleasure to be here.

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It's actually the first time that I'm on a podcast with three other people.

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That's kind of different.

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We'll be kind of like a first yeah with three other people.

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That's kind of different.

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We'll do it first.

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Yeah, a roundtable approach.

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Before we kind of dive into some of the topics here, tell the listeners a little bit about yourself and kind of how you came to e-commerce and some of the other software projects that you're working on.

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Yeah, sure, so I've been in the space since 2007.

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I remember selling a few items on eBay even before then, around 2004.

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Actually a fun fact which I probably never told but my first ever e-commerce venture was a Santa website.

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I built this Santa site that was serving basically kids and obviously the audience was kids that were sending letters to Santa during Christmas time, and I was making money with Google AdSense just by placing ads after kids were submitting their wishes.

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And then that kind of like taught me how to build my own website a little bit of coding, php to generate the scripts.

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But what I really dove deep into SEO and paid search was working with a family business in Canada, I mean starting 2007,.

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I did that for until 2015,.

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Actually, when I joined the company, we were probably about 60 people, so I was pretty much in charge of optimizing the website, running all the PPC ads, and then we started working.

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The company started growing, working with Adobe Analytics, which was more of a custom premium analytics solution, and I learned how to implement that.

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And I did that until 2015, when the company was about 1,200 employees, big.

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So quite a big journey, big growth.

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It helped me learn a lot about the corporate world, which has pros and cons, of course.

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And here I am today.

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The tech part came along the way because I discovered to be very passionate about technology and I was already doing Amazon when I met a gentleman in Hawaii at the first Illuminati mastermind if you guys remember, with many coats and Guglielmo from William Tan.

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They hosted this event and I met a gentleman called Casey Goss which was the founder of Viral Launch at the time, and he asked me to join his company as the head of innovation, which I did because it was a good experience at the time and that's what I also got to work actually hands-on with a real SaaS company.

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So the keyword research tool at the time was built by myself, together with the team, of course, but that was really more into the tech space versus just managing e-commerce and digital marketing.

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Okay, well, and I want to make sure that we get some good insights on kind of both sides of those spaces, so I guess I'll start on the e-commerce and digital marketing.

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Okay, well, and I want to make sure that, you know, we get some good insights on kind of both sides of those spaces, so I guess I'll start on the e-commerce side.

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You know, one of the things that you mentioned in the questionnaire that we sent over was that sellers lose the battle because they don't know the tools available in Seller Central, and I think this is one of those things that you know a lot of sellers could learn from, and it's kind of you know a lot of sellers could learn from, and it's kind of you know what I put in the easy win bucket.

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So, with that said, what are there?

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Any tools that kind of come top to your mind that you feel like are really overlooked by sellers?

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yeah, look, I think amazon lately did a good job at providing us tools that we didn't have before.

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You know the search query performance report, all the brand analytics.

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You know we have data right now that we didn't have a few years ago.

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The thing is that the data that is there today is still not clear.

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Right, you have to go from tool to tool in order to understand and you end up building your own dashboards, but that's what I think majority of the like the gold is actually found today.

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I was in Prague a couple of weeks ago and we were trying to understand the reason why one of my ACNs wasn't performing as well as he used to, and I was just chatting with a friend, mansour, from Incrementum Digital, and he shared with me actually a very interesting dashboard that he built in Google Looker Studio, which brings data in from brand analytics at the ASIN level and the brand level.

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But the way that it was built it allowed me to actually found and dig into the issues that I was having with the ASIN, which was caused by the fact that the ASIN was categorized as an adult ASIN, even though it was actually not an adult ASIN.

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But those are things that, without really digging into the Amazon tools I wouldn't have been able to find, and so when I talk about the tools that Amazon is providing, I think you know, between brand analytics right now, the search query, a performance report, you know, even when we look at the inventory tools that they give, the performance reports like those are all tools that give you more visibility into what's going on into your brand, and the problem is that a lot of sellers today are kind of looking over them.

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They don't spend enough time understanding what's inside Seller Central.

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They always look at what other competitors are doing, what other sellers are perhaps sharing on social media or even what other software companies are building, and they don't realize that they have access to a lot of data that can really help them understand a lot more about their business because it's coming straight from Amazon.

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So that's what I refer to when I say guys should spend a lot more time understanding what's really in their backyard instead of in their neighbor's backyard.

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You know, does it make sense?

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Yeah, yeah, it's interesting, I mean.

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I think that's absolutely true.

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I also think, though, that a part of that is, let's say, quintessential Amazon, right, like, I think, most of the time when Amazon gives us data, they give it to us in a way that almost presents it in the least usable format that you know, let's say, a regular person like off the street, you know, like a lot of sellers don't have a lot of background, you know, in business and finance and data analytics and all that sort of thing, right.

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And so Amazon, you know they give us data, but they always provide it in such a way that just a regular Joe is never, they can't make heads or tails out of it, and so I think what happens with a lot of sellers is that they look at it and it just looks like gibberish, and so they're like, okay, well, I can't do anything with this.

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So I guess I'm going to go this other way and find other ways.

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You know that that I can, you know, make you know advancements in my business, and so I guess what I would take from that is a there is good data there to be used.

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B you're going to have to take some time to either a figure out how to analyze it within Amazon system and understand how they're presenting it, or B find somebody developer, whatever to build out some custom dashboards for you, or use some service that builds out custom dashboards that pulls that data in and presents it in a way that you can understand it, because you need to be looking at the data.

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It is valuable, but if you don't understand it the way it's presented, then it's not helping you at all.

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But you've got to put the time in.

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Yeah, and I think I agree 100% here, mike, and I think this is one of the categories actually where we're still lacking innovation.

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From a software perspective, again, we have great tools when it comes to PPC management, when we have to keyword research, but when it comes to analytics and understanding data, I'm afraid there's still an opportunity there for those that want to get into the space, but lack of proper comprehensive tools.

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Now you have some tools out there, like Sellerboard, that have been around for a while that do analytics, but when it comes to really understanding what is it that caused the drop in ranking?

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Is it a node change?

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How is the drop in ranking?

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Is there a node change?

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Perhaps something was flagged on my listing?

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Maybe another ACE or other competitor came into the space and they're stealing some of my sales market shares, like these are the things that I'm afraid it's hard to find, like you said, and you need help there.

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And you know what's interesting when we put together this report.

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What's interesting when we put together this report, we found that basically, we got flagged as an adult product, so the e-acing was moved from a category to another twice and the first time the e-acing came back and most of the keywords came back.

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The second time took a little longer, but every time this happened the e-acing got a hit and it's like a boxer gets hit a couple of times.

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Eventually, like you know, it's going to go down and you know if you're not fast enough at responding to that change, you might lose market shares over time and you might never be able to recover.

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And then recently I think yesterday someone was saying in a group they're having success by refreshing the EAC, like calling in Amazon, getting to the right team, the catalog team.

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Eventually someone knows what you're talking about, they refresh your AC and probably you're able to fix that problem that way.

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However, what we found was that we were able to recover most of the keywords that were already ranking on page one before the node change, and so we're doing a test right now based on these findings.

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We're playing with PPC only on some keywords that we know were already ranked on page one before, and we are able to slowly move the needle one by one, and so we're validating this theory.

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If this is true, that the keywords that before the change were actually a lot easier to gain back, then we're going to focus on those first, because eventually you start getting more sales and then the whole listing recovers.

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But unless you do this type of analysis, you're not going to find out what really caused that drop or how to recover an AC that is losing sales.

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Right, yeah, well, and I do want to.

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So, and I agree with what both you guys are saying.

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As far as like, especially search query reports, is what comes to my mind.

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As far as it's, unless you have a tool like what you're describing, it can be really hard to parse all that data and especially, it's not helpful and how Amazon gives you that data right now.

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I know they're working on improving that, but I don't want listeners to be discouraged from that in the sense of I do think that there are other tools.

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You know a couple that come to my mind that fit in there.

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That Amazon gives us is if you look at, you know, like your returns, if you look at like voice of customer and why customers return things, you know 80% of them are probably things that are, quite frankly, outside of your control, are going to be very frustrating when you read them, but there are 20% that are within your control and by adjusting the packaging or what's on your listing or the product itself, you can prevent some of those reviews and you don't need to have, you know, really analyze a bunch of data in order to take some action items away from that.

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So I feel like that tool, you know, within Seller Central is really good, and the other one that we've started to use a lot more, and I think it's getting a lot more powerful, is the Product Opportunity Explorer.

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There's a lot of data that Amazon has put into that, where you can see you know category and trends and also your competitors research that I feel like really has not gotten the attention that it deserves yet, but it's probably closer to search analytics and there's a lot of data there, so it's a little bit harder to parse.

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You know what's actionable out of that, but there are definitely some tools, like you said, where if you spend a little bit of time, you can have a big advantage over your competitors that aren't looking at that data.

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Yeah, no, that's a good point and I think it obviously depends on the use case, right, like, what problem you're trying to solve.

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If you have an amazing product, you're ranking on page one, sales are just not there.

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Yeah, it could be that by digging into reviews and understanding more about the voice of customers, the feedback that they leave, you are able to optimize and perform better by fixing issues with your product 100%.

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But over the past eight, nine years, majority of sellers always run into the issue that they launch a product, they have a successful launch 90 days later or perhaps more.

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Sometimes I got approached by sellers that have been selling for two years, three years, and they've always been doing well and then, all of a sudden, they lose rankings and they try to figure out how do I get my sales back, especially when you have products selling three, four, 500 units a day and now you go back to 100.

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You have a team.

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Now you have people that you have to pay salaries.

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What do you do to bring that business back?

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And look, what I'm talking about is actually like I got this report, this template, for free from Incrementum Digital.

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I think they have it online somewhere and then I use the Chrome extension, which is also free, that helps you download all the search query performance reports at a weekly basis, pretty much automatically.

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So you download everything.

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You don't have to go through this process manually.

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You import it into this Google Sheet, it connects with Google Data Studio or Looker Studio and that's it.

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You just look at the data in a pretty way and have a little bit of understanding of what's going on.

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So it's not that complex.

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Have a little bit of understanding of what's going on, so it's not that complex.

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It's just a matter of spending an hour or so to collect data and then putting it all together.

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As long as you have the template that analyzes it that you know properly.

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Yeah, yeah, exactly, so you can understand it yeah.

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Right, the Chrome extension, for example.

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I'm looking at my desktop right now.

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I can give the name to the listeners.

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I think it's called Seller Central Utilities.

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There's a guy that posted about this on LinkedIn and then he was just giving it away for free and it's awesome.

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It automates the whole process.

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Interesting, Very nice.

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Valuable.

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I didn't know that it existed, so that'll be something.

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I guess we've got some action items to take away from this podcast, along with listeners as well.

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That's fantastic you don't have to wait until the end, you just go on what I love is that it takes something that is scary to most sellers.

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They know that the search query performance report is there.

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They don't know what to do with the data.

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They see months who are posting on LinkedIn about this really cool template and shows like this pretty graph of.

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Like this is what to do If your impression shares this and your purchase shares this.

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These are the steps to take.

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Like that seems overwhelming to a lot of sellers and they don't really dig in more enough to know.

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Like you sat with someone at you know at a, at an event, and we talked about this just on the last or a couple of episodes ago.

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Like getting in front of other sellers and having these face-to-face conversations.

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Like just that one conversation for you probably paid for the whole trip that you took to Prague, because you learned something.

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You saw data that proved this is why my ASIN has lost market share, and it's something that anybody can do.

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You just described how to a tool that automates the downloading of the search query performance.

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You also talked about this template that you can import all this data in for free and see all of these beautiful graphs.

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Like that is so valuable, but you have to be in communication with sellers to be able to find this kind of stuff out.

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Graphs like that is so valuable, but you have to be in communication with sellers to be able to find this kind of stuff out, and that's one of the things that we talk about a lot yeah, absolutely.

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I think you know the value of community is is by far the best thing, that that someone can invest in or can do in this space, because there's so much that changes on a daily basis, and I think it always is always useful to be able to, you know, reach out to someone or sit down with someone at the conference and then figure something out.

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And for me, for example, if there was one thing that I could take away and normally I go as a speaker right, so I try always to help other people, but when you take something away, it's, you know, it feels just, you know your time was worth it for sure.

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So that, for example, for me it was very important.

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Sometimes we just overlook things and we think we have the business under control and then you just lose I don't want to say touch, but you know you just lose focus for a second, and it's important to brainstorm with other people to figure out what is it that I'm missing out here?

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Well, it also takes a little bit of humility, because when you're walking into those situations, if you always want to be the one who's the smartest guy in the room, then you don't ask the questions that you really should be asking of those individuals, because the reality is almost never are you the smartest guy in the room, hopefully, I mean, if you're, you're attending the wrong conferences.

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Probably if you're the smartest guy in the room every single time, right.

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So, but being humble enough to ask those questions, that exposes that you don't know.

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You know that that's a valuable piece, because otherwise you don't ever get the information.

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So, out of curiosity, leo, that template that you used to bring that data into, is that a publicly available template or was that something that was more privately shared for you?

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No, it's publicly available.

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I think it's called Supa.

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By the way, for the listeners here, I'm not affiliated with Incrementum Digital.

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I just you know they're a great company, they're doing a phenomenal job, and Mansour is someone I really look up to and he was kind enough to share this template with me, but I think he also shared it on LinkedIn.

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It's called Supa.

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Yeah, exactly.

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He updated it and he also.

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They ended up putting it on their website somewhere to download for free.

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So I remember that post very well.

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It was one of the first that I saw go as viral as it did, but he ended up putting it on their website.

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Super, super cool template.

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Okay, great yeah, I can see the link Be sure to look it up?

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Sure, you can look it up in the show notes after, but the link is out there.

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So you can use, like I said, this template with the Chrome extension and you have your own analytics dashboard.

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Yeah, we'll actually make sure that both those tools, the links to those, are in the show notes so anybody who's listening they can have a quick reference.

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They don't even have to do the Google search.

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We'll do that heavy lifting for them on that one.

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They can save that for a different tool in Seller Central.

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I do want to pivot a little bit to you know one of the other things that topics on the list, which was talking about acquiring new reviews.

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Because I think you know, especially looking at brands that are well, brands are trying to differentiate themselves.

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There's a lot of competition.

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Obviously, reviews is a big part of this.

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I think most of the listeners you know that have some experience with this know like, okay, well, some of that's based on sales velocity.

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I'm only going to get you know a certain percentage that are going to leave reviews and they're probably using a basic tool, you know, something like Helium 10, to kind of automate that request process.

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But outside of that, you know, are there other things that are kind of in your framework when you think about how to keep acquiring those new reviews to strengthen that product.

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So, john, this is a lot of sellers speakers normally people that talk about this topic have kind of like steered away over the past few years since Amazon changed the TOS I think it was late 2021.

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But you know, I always like to talk about this because this is actually what I'm afraid this business is all about.

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You know, we see on a regular basis on Amazon sellers manipulating reviews.

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I'm actually thinking to create a series on my own Instagram page with reels where I actually expose sellers that I come across that are doing this.

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Just recently I came across one that it was.

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I think they had something like 20,000 reviews and it was one of the few problems with so many reviews, and I was just about to buy it when I read one review that was about something else.

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And this is one of the, I think, the blackout techniques that a lot of sellers are still adopting, where they either merge or they try to find the very old ASIN with a lot of reviews and they attach it to a new one, attach it to anyone.

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So you know, for sellers out there that are struggling, you know, from a review competition no-transcript it's very important to understand how sellers are getting reviews and how fair they're playing.

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Because if you're competing with Chinese that are getting tons of reviews attached to their listing just by merging with other zombie ASINs they call them then I would probably try to find another niche, because these are niches that are always going to be either hard to compete in or I know these sellers probably won't last long.

00:20:58.739 --> 00:21:03.394
But the problem is that the way the Chinese play is a totally different game.

00:21:03.394 --> 00:21:10.592
You know they have thousands of burner accounts and so they probably won't leave that niche because they know there's so much money in that niche.

00:21:10.592 --> 00:21:12.773
They're always going to try to figure out a way to get more reviews.

00:21:13.496 --> 00:21:21.739
Yeah, I've really heard recently a lot of really good stories about using Vine still for reviews.

00:21:21.739 --> 00:21:28.244
Some sellers are not even doing any giveaways, anything like that, and just going with Vine few reviews and they're successful.

00:21:28.244 --> 00:21:36.559
But a lot of them are still using inserts, not asking for a review straight after the QR code scan.

00:21:36.559 --> 00:21:47.114
They're nurturing the customer through a warranty the type of flows that we know, the funnels that we know and then eventually asking for feedback or review down the road.

00:21:47.915 --> 00:21:53.195
I give an example I think this was a while back of a company that took it to a whole different level.

00:21:53.195 --> 00:22:07.499
It was a device, an electronic device, that asked the customer to download an app and eventually, after three weeks from the day I purchased that product, I was asked for a review on the actual mobile app.

00:22:07.499 --> 00:22:12.017
So that was, in my opinion, mind-blowing because I've never seen that before.

00:22:12.017 --> 00:22:42.010
And there are other sellers that are leveraging the social media channels, such as Instagram or TikTok, and they normally reach out to creators through these platforms and then eventually get reviews that way, which I see personally being a safer way probably hard to scale because you have to message a lot of people to get a decent amount of reviews, but these are the ways that I see.

00:22:42.010 --> 00:22:50.256
Still, you know sellers most sellers adopting to generate constantly reviews, besides the ones coming in organically.

00:22:51.566 --> 00:22:54.330
So, leo, what do you think of like?

00:22:54.330 --> 00:23:01.082
So discussing the topic of continuing to bring in those reviews?

00:23:01.082 --> 00:23:05.190
Obviously the quality and the actual rating of the review matter.

00:23:05.190 --> 00:23:07.534
What do you think about?

00:23:07.534 --> 00:23:10.385
How do I want to pose the question?

00:23:10.385 --> 00:23:13.654
Quality of review matters, right.

00:23:13.654 --> 00:23:32.026
So if, even though a five-star review is helpful, if it's a one sentence review with no image, no video or anything like that, it has far less weight with a consumer who might actually read the reviews than one that's longer and more detailed, has some pictures, video, those sort of things Are there.

00:23:32.026 --> 00:23:42.496
Are there some things that you think that sellers should or could be doing to improve the quality of the reviews that they're receiving, versus just simply the quantity of reviews they're receiving?

00:23:45.066 --> 00:23:50.757
Yeah, mike, I think it comes down to how they're getting these reviews to begin with.

00:23:50.757 --> 00:23:55.734
You know if they're just getting approached through the traditional Amazon channels.

00:23:55.734 --> 00:24:00.155
You know the button that we just press in Seller Central to request a review.

00:24:00.155 --> 00:24:06.854
That's just a template that comes from Amazon asking for a review, and so you can't really you can't do much there.

00:24:06.854 --> 00:24:09.674
You don't have control over what is being asked to the customer.

00:24:09.674 --> 00:24:13.266
It's hard for you to say, hey, you know, I would appreciate if you can post a picture.

00:24:13.266 --> 00:24:21.554
Right, you cannot do that, and so sellers that are still playing in that gray area where they send perhaps an email, follow up or SMS.

00:24:22.034 --> 00:24:25.156
So it has to be done post-purchase.

00:24:25.156 --> 00:24:29.059
You need to have some sort of connection with the customer.

00:24:29.059 --> 00:24:31.041
Then it's a little bit different.

00:24:31.041 --> 00:24:42.597
It's easier to ask the customer hey, we're trying to build an amazing company, an amazing brand, social media we will love, for example, we're doing something like that.

00:24:42.597 --> 00:24:52.250
It also depends on the product that we sell card games and so for us it's easy to say, hey, share, share your moments with us and we will reward you with, with a gift card that we're going to choose.

00:24:52.250 --> 00:24:59.436
You know the best, the funniest video once a month and then share it and give you, give you a pair of Apple AirPods, like things like that.

00:24:59.436 --> 00:25:02.314
You incentivize that way your customers.

00:25:02.314 --> 00:25:11.157
But otherwise, if you don't have a one-on-one relationship, a one-to-one relationship, then it's hard to do.

00:25:12.220 --> 00:25:20.194
Yeah, I mean, obviously we talk a lot on this podcast about that one-to-one relationship and trying to build that engagement with the customer post-purchase.

00:25:20.194 --> 00:25:22.153
So I think it's a valuable piece.

00:25:22.153 --> 00:25:25.114
I don't know if John or Matt, if you've got any thoughts on that.

00:25:25.114 --> 00:25:35.577
I mean, obviously we've got kind of our standard answer, which is just make sure that you're doing something post-purchase, but any other things that you think you could be doing with customers that would enhance the reviews that they're getting.

00:25:38.444 --> 00:25:39.652
I guess that you know we've talked about a little bit before.

00:25:39.652 --> 00:25:50.545
But the two things that come to mind I mean the first one is you know you talked about once you have that one-to-one connection rather than asking for a review right away and you mentioned this, leo, you know you want to build that relationship.

00:25:50.545 --> 00:26:13.193
I think it's super important to make sure that customers essentially got what they wanted and to make sure that they don't have any questions or any problems with the product, because now what you're doing is you're essentially preventing one-star reviews, which is more powerful than getting a five-star review and providing better customer service, because I think everybody's ordered something off of Amazon.

00:26:13.193 --> 00:26:17.311
Once it arrived in the mail it wasn't exactly what they wanted.

00:26:17.311 --> 00:26:21.660
Humans are part of the process, so mistakes happen.

00:26:21.660 --> 00:26:26.676
So being able to fix that really strengthens your brand and can prevent those one-star reviews.

00:26:27.464 --> 00:26:29.548
And then I think the other thing is just to keep in mind.

00:26:29.548 --> 00:26:31.171
You know, leo, you mentioned about.

00:26:31.171 --> 00:26:43.229
You know most customers if they do leave a review, they're just clicking, kind of that standard template where it's a one through five review and all you're getting is the star rating.

00:26:43.229 --> 00:26:44.413
You're not actually getting any comments behind that.

00:26:44.413 --> 00:26:46.101
Again, if you have that one-on-one connection.

00:26:46.101 --> 00:27:02.682
I think in a lot of cases it's an education piece where you know, really prompting customers and having them be a part of the brand of like hey, a really powerful review looks like you know a star rating plus a description, plus some sort of you know picture or video, and just letting them know.

00:27:02.682 --> 00:27:11.333
So those customers that really are, you know, huge fans of your brands are really willing to go those extra steps if they know that that has a lot of benefit to you.

00:27:11.333 --> 00:27:14.930
So I would just think about those two additional points on what you talked about, leo.

00:27:15.991 --> 00:27:19.239
Yeah, I love the first one, trying to prevent one-star reviews.

00:27:19.239 --> 00:27:27.655
I think playing defense there is a critical strategy and it's one of my favorite ones.

00:27:27.655 --> 00:27:31.990
In fact, we always try to get one-star reviews removed, because I call it.

00:27:31.990 --> 00:27:33.409
Like you know, you buy time in business.

00:27:33.409 --> 00:27:39.671
In my perspective, if you try to get rid of one-star reviews, you can just play longer, so you're buying lives, right.

00:27:39.671 --> 00:27:43.855
So that's strategy number one.

00:27:43.855 --> 00:27:55.117
And today you have a tool actually available on the Amazon Self-Essential that allows you to contact customers that have left a one-star review and try to refund them or give them a replacement.

00:27:55.117 --> 00:27:59.355
Before Amazon, there was no such tool, right?

00:27:59.355 --> 00:28:04.491
So now you have, I guess, one more opportunity to get rid of one-star reviews.

00:28:04.491 --> 00:28:09.704
The number two, obviously, is getting more reviews, more five-star reviews.

00:28:10.185 --> 00:28:25.558
The problem there is that as buyers, as consumers, we always tend to leave a review when we're pissed, right, and that review is so long and like we have videos and it's the best review ever, but it's negative, right.

00:28:26.005 --> 00:29:19.134
So you know, in case where the actual the opposite happens, where you want to leave a review, very rarely we see those nice reviews that have more weight, michael, like you said, with pictures and videos, and that's why I think it's important to start building a list, to start building some sort of funnel that is compliant but eventually leads to that relationship, that trust between the brand and the customer, between the brand and the customer, where you can approach them with a better message, with a message that is not necessarily against the TOS, but you're like hey look, we really appreciate your feedback and, by the way, if you can share the way you use your tool or this type of whatever stretch band, it will actually help our customers learn more about our product.

00:29:19.134 --> 00:29:27.512
I think that we're playing in a very fine space there, without necessarily violating the TOAs, but that will probably lead to much better reviews.

00:29:28.055 --> 00:29:37.933
Yeah, Well, when you do the hard work and you build an audience like that, my story is piggybacking on with someone's existing audience and I've done that a couple of different times to launch a brand.

00:29:37.933 --> 00:29:46.616
But when you do that hard work whether it's make a relationship with an audience or build an audience through post-purchase things a lot of other things become a lot easier.

00:29:46.616 --> 00:29:55.032
When, when I partnered with the Facebook group owner in the group that we launched our products in, like we, we made them a part of creating those products.

00:29:55.032 --> 00:30:01.531
Like we were selling a lot of me too things that Chinese manufacturers were selling direct for a whole lot cheaper than we wanted to sell it.

00:30:01.531 --> 00:30:12.334
But we had a group of people that felt like they were part of something bigger, like they would step over those Chinese competitors to find our brand and pay premium because, hey, I got to help choose this product.

00:30:12.334 --> 00:30:17.474
Like I get to help choose this brand name and I know that not everyone has an audience to leverage like that.

00:30:21.765 --> 00:30:34.872
But if you're doing the right things that we teach and you know the people that we bring on the podcast are teaching and you're doing that, you're growing that audience which then you can use as an asset, like when we launched to that group, the people naturally went and left reviews and they left unboxing reviews and they left pictures because they were excited about the brand.

00:30:34.872 --> 00:30:51.989
And we created that excitement in a closed group that we then sent to Amazon and, like you know, we talked about how, what, like someone would buy one of our products in the group, they would do an unboxing, so then you'd have a whole nother hundred of couple hundred people that saw the product and now they're going to Amazon and searching for our brand name.

00:30:51.989 --> 00:31:02.258
So like doing that hard work of doing post purchase things or doing the hard work of finding another audience that you can piggyback on, pays dividends on all of these things that we're talking about.

00:31:02.724 --> 00:31:04.249
Yeah, matt, I love it.

00:31:04.249 --> 00:31:08.907
There is a friend of mine you guys most likely know him, tomer Rabinovich.

00:31:08.907 --> 00:31:21.839
He's working on a new Amazon brand and I think listeners should pay attention to what he's doing to build a brand and to build a list, and that follows what is exactly what Matt just mentioned here.

00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:39.179
He blew my mind when it comes to innovating to deliver this, what he called the six stars experience, which leads customers to leave a review because of the experience that they just had.

00:31:39.179 --> 00:31:43.817
You know, going that extra mile, giving that extra gift they didn't buy.

00:31:43.817 --> 00:31:53.853
Like, everything that we've been talking about for the past six, seven years is implementing in the next brand and I think it is doing this live.

00:31:53.853 --> 00:31:59.224
I think everything that is building is documenting the whole thing publicly life.

00:31:59.224 --> 00:32:06.151
I think everything that he's building, he's documenting the whole thing publicly, and so if some sellers are interested in understanding how can we apply this concept, I think Tomer is doing a good job there, yeah.

00:32:07.032 --> 00:32:08.356
Well, I think that connects really well.

00:32:08.664 --> 00:32:37.798
You know what, matt, you were talking about and Leo into curious kind of what you're working on right now with Splicer and influencer marketing influencer marketing yeah, I was actually thinking about it while matt was talking, because splice was built with that goal in mind like to build your own audience, your own network, so that you don't have to rely on these pay-to-play platforms or strategies.

00:32:37.798 --> 00:32:53.974
The goal there is to leverage the creator's network that is huge today between TikTok and Instagram, like YouTube, and find people that resonate with your brand so that you can build your own network of brand ambassadors.

00:32:53.974 --> 00:33:19.880
These are people that not only will be super happy to buy your product, promote your product, but they will always be ready to help your brand launch more products, give you feedback on new product ideas, new packaging, everything right and they're growing with you because they're getting paid not only for each video they're posting, but also for the commissions on the sales that they're generating for your brand.

00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:43.261
So I think that's probably the next step move, or the next big step that sellers should take in order for them to have a little bit more control over their business, without necessarily, you know, having a team that is there, you know doing this 24 seven having a bigger team, because it's pretty much really easy to implement.

00:33:43.261 --> 00:33:49.377
Michael got a sneak peek the other day on Splice, and so that's the goal there, right?

00:33:49.598 --> 00:34:00.859
Because today, you know, I'm afraid that these creators, especially on TikTok, they're not realizing this yet because the growth is so it looks like this hockey stick.

00:34:00.940 --> 00:34:15.364
Right, they're getting so many new followers, but they're not seeing how many they're actually losing, and what I see is that this audience, these people watching content, they're already complaining about content being just another Amazon product.

00:34:15.443 --> 00:34:28.277
Right Before, they were just making content to entertain, now they're making content to make money, and so when the audience is going to start to disengage, then it's a problem, right?

00:34:28.277 --> 00:34:37.155
Because these videos will be no longer watched as much or no longer be as entertaining, and so, on the creator side of things, they need to pay attention.

00:34:37.155 --> 00:34:52.163
They better off partnering up with brands long-term instead of working with a different brand, probably in the same niche, because if you are building a channel on automotive, that's what you know, they, they.

00:34:52.163 --> 00:34:54.204
If you are building a channel on, you know automotive, that's what you know, and, and so you have.

00:34:54.204 --> 00:35:16.396
You're probably doing one thing right now you're working with a bunch of different automotive brands to promote a bunch of different products, but in my opinion, what they should be doing is work with one brand find a good brand that resonates with our audience probably has a good brand resonates with with them, of course and just work with them, push their brand, become partners, get a good affiliate deal going.

00:35:17.530 --> 00:35:20.440
And for a brand you find three, four, five creators like this.

00:35:20.440 --> 00:35:22.577
I think you're good, right.

00:35:22.577 --> 00:35:28.237
I think that's the difference here between who's doing this just to create UGC content and who's actually leveraging the opportunity to build a proper network.

00:35:28.237 --> 00:35:32.579
Yeah, no, I think that's great here between who's doing this just to create UGC content and who's actually leveraging the opportunity to build a proper network.

00:35:33.501 --> 00:35:34.664
Yeah, no, I think that's great.

00:35:34.664 --> 00:35:48.679
I mean that whole idea of partnering with the creator as not just another affiliate, you know, but as an actual partner, you know, in the brand and helping them build their audience.

00:35:48.679 --> 00:35:57.972
You know, based on that, you know, and not, you know, as you said, you know, turning away a lot of their viewers because they're promoting, you know, a hundred different products.

00:35:57.972 --> 00:36:01.815
You know every other video is that when it's a single brand, I think you can avoid that.

00:36:01.815 --> 00:36:19.418
The other thing that I was going to mention and we've kind of talked about this a little bit, leo is that you know, I think, layering on that extra piece, which is because you don't know which influencers are going to end up working out, which ones aren't, which ones you're going to be able to partner with, which ones you don't.

00:36:19.418 --> 00:36:44.682
But the one thing that's nice is that if you use one of the newer tools, like, say, pixelme, or you turn me on actually to a product called switchy, which you can get through AppSumo, which is it doesn't do everything that pixel me does, but it does the one thing that pixel me does that I that I want to talk about, which is pixeling all of those individuals who are clicking through from those influencers to, say, amazon or wherever you're sending them.

00:36:44.682 --> 00:36:51.043
If you can pixel those individuals, now they're on your remarketing list.

00:36:51.043 --> 00:36:57.530
So it's like, yes, you can work with those influencers, but what about the influencers who did send traffic but maybe they didn't buy right Like.

00:36:57.550 --> 00:37:00.072
So we sell pool products we might have.

00:37:00.072 --> 00:37:02.780
Well, for instance, we're running, you know something right now.

00:37:02.780 --> 00:37:06.300
There's a lot of clicks that come through that don't result in a purchase.

00:37:06.300 --> 00:37:22.577
There may be many of the influencers that are in this program that we end up not working with long-term because the conversion rate wasn't terrific, you know, or whatever, but it's clear that everybody who clicked through is at least in some way, shape or form, related to the audience that we're looking for.

00:37:22.577 --> 00:37:31.394
If we can pixel all of those, even though we didn't get a sale the first time around, we can remarket to them on Facebook and Google and TikTok and wherever we like.

00:37:31.394 --> 00:37:52.184
So if you're going to go down this road and you should, you know, trying to work with these influencers and using a tool like Spliced or something like that, you know, make sure that you're building into that process, this pixeling opportunity, so that you can remarket to them later and that'll make the dollars that you're spending on the front end for these influencers way more valuable on the back end, because you can keep remarketing.

00:37:54.291 --> 00:38:25.001
And I also want to just throw in there you know, as someone who has done this for a few brands as part of marketing on Amazon, how without and now I haven't seen Spliced yet but I can tell you without doing this with a tool how challenging this is when you start looking at finding those influencers, reaching out to them, developing that relationship, getting them to actually you know post content and kind of sifting through to find, like you said, those four or five you're going to build a long term relationship with.

00:38:25.510 --> 00:38:30.193
If you're doing this kind of the old fashioned, you know manual way, there's a ton of obstacles in your way.

00:38:30.193 --> 00:38:32.235
I feel like we've been put in the last couple years.

00:38:32.235 --> 00:38:52.132
I mean one that comes to my mind that you know we ran into was, yeah, we could find those influencers on like Instagram, but if we didn't have some sort of you know relationship with them or something like that and you DM them, you might have the best intentions in the world, but there's a other box for you know direct messages on Instagram that nobody looks at.

00:38:52.132 --> 00:38:55.981
So you know our response rate on those were essentially zero.

00:38:55.981 --> 00:39:09.980
So in order to be effective at this, I mean, yeah, you can do it the old fashioned way, but I feel like having a tool is so much more powerful than just trying to, you know, reach out to influencers and find a couple of those diamonds in the rough.

00:39:10.891 --> 00:39:28.373
Yeah, that's still an issue today because you have limited number of DMs, first of all, that you can send, and they do fall under a different bucket, so we normally reach out via email and then, when we don't get a reply, we follow up.

00:39:28.373 --> 00:39:29.376
And then we follow up again.

00:39:29.376 --> 00:39:34.702
We do see if obviously the creator has seen that email or not.

00:39:34.702 --> 00:39:42.297
But you know there are multiple channels that you should try, obviously, to reach out to an influencer, and you know doing that manually is very hard.

00:39:42.297 --> 00:39:44.610
You need some sort of automation in place.

00:39:44.610 --> 00:39:56.335
But the thing is that there are still a lot of sellers today that are doing this old school, the old fashioned way, like you mentioned.

00:39:56.335 --> 00:40:15.563
And what tools help you do is just scale when as the person behind it or the effectiveness of it, right.

00:40:15.563 --> 00:40:24.427
So the reason why I built Splice is because I needed a way to automate things and scale what was already working before, for example, getting reviews.

00:40:24.427 --> 00:40:29.811
We were getting it through Instagram, dming a bunch of people, but not just DMing them.

00:40:29.811 --> 00:40:37.719
We were approaching them in a different way commenting first, right, building the relationship, like you mentioned, and then you know when you send them a message they're going to click on it.

00:40:37.719 --> 00:40:47.900
So you know, when you figure something out that works manually, that's when you perhaps use a tool that automate the process and then you can scale right.

00:40:47.900 --> 00:40:50.282
So this is what we're trying to do.

00:40:51.306 --> 00:41:11.903
One unique feature I don't want to, you know, promote surprise so much, because I like people to just play with it themselves is that, like we built in this mlm component so that when you find those four, five, ten influencers that really work, work well for you, they can invite more people like themselves to join your network.

00:41:12.409 --> 00:41:28.663
And so, if you do this right, with the right incentive or with the right affiliate commissions, you might end up with a network of 100 or 200 people in a few months, but all you did was finding the first five or 10 through software that were actually good.

00:41:28.663 --> 00:41:31.878
And so that's what I think software is good for.

00:41:31.878 --> 00:41:58.119
And to Michael's point, you know, when you fire pixels and you know these audiences engaged because they were actually watching that video on how to replace a car tire, for example, using a specific you know tool, you know these people are interested in that segment and remarketing with a new product or reaching out to them.

00:41:58.119 --> 00:42:06.938
For whatever the case is, as long as it's trying to target that audience with a remarketing pixel is the easiest thing and the cheapest, probably, way to get their attention.

00:42:06.938 --> 00:42:17.820
So, 100%, I think every seller should, and if they're sending traffic from outside of Amazon to Amazon, they should definitely pick, sell and start building an audience, because you never know when you're going to need that.

00:42:17.820 --> 00:42:20.759
But you do need people to sell something to.

00:42:21.231 --> 00:42:30.318
And even if you use that, even if you use the remarketing just to build a list, you know, like you send them to some free offer, you know that you can get them on an email list or something.

00:42:30.318 --> 00:42:35.541
So once you got them on the email list then you know you've got them, as long as you give them good content and you take care of them.

00:42:35.541 --> 00:42:40.420
So the remarketing is just the first step of that top of funnel.

00:42:40.420 --> 00:42:50.326
You know to get them on your list and then you're building out, like Matt said, then you're building that pre-audience, that then you know you can market to and sell the product and funnel it down the line.

00:42:51.847 --> 00:43:17.405
So for the listeners out there that you know want to build kind of that closer connection with their customers and definitely have you know off Amazon traffic that they can drive you know from off Amazon onto Amazon, cause I think you know every most people understand all the benefits that at this point, what would you give as an action item for a good place for them to start with that process, based on the discussion we've had today?

00:43:18.010 --> 00:43:19.494
Assuming that every niche is different.

00:43:19.494 --> 00:43:24.250
The first thing I would do personally is starting my competition and seeing what they're doing.

00:43:24.250 --> 00:43:29.139
I would buy probably the first page of products to see how they're acquiring.

00:43:29.139 --> 00:43:40.210
Today, customers have to be building their own list, assuming that anyway, amazon is the play that we're aiming to, the game we're aiming to play for the next two years.

00:43:40.210 --> 00:43:46.382
If we're doing D2C or our intent is to go on TikTok shops, that's a different strategy, right.

00:43:46.382 --> 00:44:05.742
But if I want to win on Amazon for the next two years, I will buy my competitors' products, see how they're acquiring, reviews, how they are establishing relationships with their customers and see, obviously, the top players, because Amazon changes every day and being on top of the game is crucial in this industry.

00:44:06.250 --> 00:44:09.715
So trying to figure out what is it that is working is the number one thing.

00:44:09.715 --> 00:44:30.239
We know that the majority of sellers we can find this information pretty much everywhere they are I'm talking about sellers that are winning they are in some ways building these post-purchase funnels that lead to a warranty or opt-in for an extra.

00:44:30.239 --> 00:44:42.836
You know, whatever the case is, there are so many different scenarios and so being able to have that in place is already the first thing that you know a seller that doesn't have it should be doing.

00:44:42.836 --> 00:44:47.634
But you know, I don't think there is one tool today out there that allows you to.

00:44:47.634 --> 00:45:09.552
You know, one tool today out there that allows you to, you know, have this funnel in place in a simple way, because it starts with, obviously, putting an insert in the product, whether it's a QR code, and so I don't want to complicate things for listeners here.

00:45:09.552 --> 00:45:11.954
I think you know keeping things simple has always worked the best for me.

00:45:11.954 --> 00:45:28.862
I have always had one QR code in my inserts and one phone number that people could text to, so that they could either text to opt in for whatever the offer was or scan the QR code, and obviously you want to know that's a no-brainer.

00:45:28.862 --> 00:45:30.548
But I always give the option to opt in through multiple channels.

00:45:30.548 --> 00:45:33.237
Someone might not be on their phone at the moment.

00:45:33.237 --> 00:45:35.559
They might be on their desktop, so they can type in the URL.

00:45:35.559 --> 00:45:39.840
Or if they are on their phone, they don't know how to scan the QR code, they can just text.

00:45:39.840 --> 00:45:41.677
So give always the options.

00:45:41.677 --> 00:45:44.974
But then, when it comes to the funnel, I like to keep it simple.

00:45:45.896 --> 00:45:57.679
One of the best ones that I've seen, and this guy told me they had collected 30,000 phone numbers was simply a landing page where they were offering another complimentary product.

00:45:57.679 --> 00:46:01.617
They weren't asking for a review, just entering information here.

00:46:01.617 --> 00:46:03.456
We're giving you these complimentary products.

00:46:03.456 --> 00:46:12.693
Let's say you're selling a gaming chair, you're giving away a free gaming mouse, and the way they were doing it, they were actually shipping it from AliExpress.

00:46:12.693 --> 00:46:18.074
So the gaming mouse, the cost is just a dollar, right, a couple of dollars from AliExpress.

00:46:18.074 --> 00:46:19.739
They're buying the gaming chair.

00:46:19.739 --> 00:46:25.340
They bought it probably for $150 on Amazon and so it's a complimentary product.

00:46:26.181 --> 00:46:30.835
If they are buying that product, you know they're probably going to use a mouse, a gaming mouse, and that's it.

00:46:30.835 --> 00:46:36.025
Simple, cheap, and that gets you, the customers in right.

00:46:36.025 --> 00:46:46.391
Then, whatever you want to do with them after, it's up to you If you want to ask for a review once you know they haven't returned, for example, the gaming chair, or offer them a new product.

00:46:46.391 --> 00:47:00.114
But that's a simple one that I can think of and I don't know about you guys, but I don't know any tools out there because of the Amazon TOS changes that actually allows you to do this in with a couple of clicks.

00:47:02.659 --> 00:47:03.641
Yeah, it's not simple.

00:47:03.641 --> 00:47:06.233
It does take some work in order to set up that sort of process.

00:47:06.233 --> 00:47:07.074
You know we do.

00:47:07.074 --> 00:47:15.764
So part of the reason that, again, we see the same thing, we do have a free course that we offer as part of Brand Fortress HQ.

00:47:15.764 --> 00:47:17.972
That kind of walks people through this process.

00:47:17.972 --> 00:47:28.083
And I think the other thing that you said that I just really want to double click on, which is there's not a one-size-fits-all for every category, every brand, every product.

00:47:28.083 --> 00:47:45.257
So that's part of what we kind of built in, that as well as like okay, here's some ideas and where to apply them, depending on what category you're in, you know, and what sort of product it is, in order to, you know, build that incentive in the funnel and everything behind it to work for your brand Right.

00:47:45.257 --> 00:47:56.577
So we've covered a lot of ground today, leo, for folks that are interested in you know, learning more about you and kind of you know what you're up to, where's a good place for them to find you.

00:47:58.130 --> 00:48:05.693
Yeah, you guys can find me on LinkedIn, it's just LeoScovio, and I have my own website, leoscoviocom, where you can.

00:48:05.693 --> 00:48:11.679
I don't post a lot on my own website but there is, if you're interested in SEO, actually like Amazon SEO.

00:48:11.679 --> 00:48:21.855
I am posting more content about that and will probably soon release a course actually on it, especially now that Amazon changed the Well, it didn't change.

00:48:21.855 --> 00:48:23.519
They updated the algorithm with Cosmo.

00:48:23.519 --> 00:48:26.117
We didn't touch on this, but it's a very interesting topic.

00:48:26.117 --> 00:48:27.682
It's a very interesting topic.

00:48:27.682 --> 00:48:50.400
I spent a lot of time reading the patents and I decided to put something together which I think is going to be very useful for those that really want to dive deep into understanding what makes my product rank and how can I improve my rankings, just by optimizing my listings, my titles, playing with this fancy word that everyone is using.

00:48:50.400 --> 00:48:53.719
It's semantic, semantic SEO, right.

00:48:53.719 --> 00:48:59.978
So that's the stuff that I love to work on, so you can find more on that on my website.

00:49:00.760 --> 00:49:02.715
Okay, Well it sounds like we might have to have you back, yeah.

00:49:05.931 --> 00:49:13.422
We'll have to have you back another time just to talk about Cosmo, because I think that's a and kind of the changes that are happening there, because I think there's a lot happening there as well.

00:49:13.422 --> 00:49:17.099
But I think this is a lot that we've given to our listeners for today.

00:49:17.099 --> 00:49:22.659
Leo, thank you so much for being so generous on these topics and making the time for the podcast today.

00:49:22.659 --> 00:49:23.983
We appreciate having you on.

00:49:24.543 --> 00:49:25.065
Thank you guys.

00:49:25.065 --> 00:49:30.474
I really appreciate being here and anytime I'd love to talk about Cosmo next Awesome.