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Welcome everybody to another episode of Tactics Tuesday at Brand Fortress HQ.
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Today, what we're going to be talking about is the new AMC and geo-targeting strategies happening on Amazon.
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This is one of those things that I feel like has been around the Amazon community for a number of years.
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That said, it is worth taking another look at, because Amazon has put a lot of resources into updating AMC, making it much more available, and then also their geotargeting strategies as well.
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So with that, mike, I know you've been working on this quite a bit, so I'm going to toss it over to you and, if you can, maybe just talk about how you've been thinking about this and maybe some of the things that you're looking at testing when it comes to geotargeting and AMC.
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Sure, yeah.
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So anybody who listens to the podcast knows we sell pool cleaning tools, and so we're a very seasonal kind of a product, and one of the things that we have run into in the past is that when we move into the off season, which essentially is going to be like August or September, probably more like September through February, then our sales drop off.
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But more than that, the cost of advertising goes up, because what you end up with is, if you're advertising across the US as a whole, then a lot of the individuals that you're advertising are people who don't have their pools open right now, and so they might be looking, you know, like they're browsing around and they're taking a look at things, but they're not buying because the pool's not open, and so you get a lot of tire kickers and so your ACOS goes kind of through the roof, and so you end up having to cut back on your advertising because you're advertising to a bunch of people that you don't actually want to at that moment.
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So what we're looking at as one of the opportunities that AMC offers us is the opportunity to limit our sponsored ads, you know, to specific geographic regions that essentially have year round pool openings, so we can target.
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You know Southern California, southern Texas, southern Florida, arizona, you know Las Vegas, you know those sorts of areas where people got those pools open all year round, and so then when we run those ads, our ACOS doesn't have to climb.
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In fact, it might even be better than it is right now, because another thing that we were looking at is those areas.
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Okay, so backing up our product again, a lot of people already know this, who listen to the podcast regularly.
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But you know we offer unlimited lifetime replacement warranties on our products.
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And so if you think about it for a second and you were to compare somebody who owns a pool in Michigan to somebody who owns a pool in Phoenix, compare somebody who owns a pool in Michigan to somebody who owns a pool in Phoenix, the Phoenix person has their pool open all year round.
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They have super high, you know UV, you know light and whatnot.
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So it's like tools break down way faster and they get used considerably more and for a much longer period of time every season than the person in Michigan.
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So what happens is a person in Michigan, they might buy a standard full net, you know from just Joe Blow for like 15 bucks and it might actually last them a few seasons because they're not using it super hard.
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They only use it, for, you know, four months out of the year.
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The UV is not that hard.
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So but the person in Phoenix they might go through two per season, certainly one per season, and so for that person our lifetime warranty becomes that much more valuable.
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Now, this is all speculation, but it makes perfect sense, like if I'm putting myself in their shoes.
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I absolutely, if I was living in Phoenix, would pay much more attention to a lifetime warranty and the value of it would be much higher to me than if I lived in Michigan.
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So what we want to do is start advertising and really directing our ads to those individuals, who are individuals that have their pool open year round, because I have a stinking suspicion that their CTR and CBR values will be considerably higher than if we're advertising nationwide.
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Now, with AMC you can target regionally like that.
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It's a little bit different for some ads versus others.
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So AMC can be used to create audiences.
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That you can use in DSP, but you can also use in sponsored ads Now in DSP.
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But you can also use in sponsored ads Now in DSP and sponsored display, which is kind of like a mini DSP, you can actually specifically target the ad so that it only goes to individuals in whatever geographic region you specify.
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Alternatively for sponsored products and sponsored brands.
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It's not really a limiter, so, in other words, it's not only going to run your ad to those individuals.
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However, it's almost more like a bid modifier kind of a situation where individuals that fall within your geographic region are going to get the bulk of the advertising and the ad spend.
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So you might still advertise to people in Michigan, but more of your ads are going to show up to people in Phoenix or Southern California and things like that.
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So that's actually one area that we're moving into right now and are looking to implement almost immediately is that geographic target.
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Yeah.
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So, if I understand you correct, just to break this down for our audience, I think there's a couple of really important points here.
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So the first one is thinking about audiences in the sense of.
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I think most people at this point understand the concept of a highly targeted audience versus a broad audience.
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So let's just take, you know, you know men's boots is an example, a random example that comes to mind.
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So if you were advertising for a keyword that was men's boots, you know that's pretty wide, and so you're going to get a lot of people that might click on your ad because they are men that are looking for a boot.
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But if it's, you know, it may not be the right boot that they're looking for specifically for.
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Maybe they're looking for something for motorcycling as opposed to working construction as opposed to, you know, cowboy boots, like there's a lot of different variety there, and so when you go wide like that, I think we're pretty familiar with the concept of those keywords are not going to convert as well as if we have something that's super specific, where you know, maybe if we were saying it was for construction, where it's like men's boots for construction or something like that, where it's very precise.
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So I think we understand that from a keyword standpoint and really this is just taking that same concept and applying it to audiences.
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And in your particular case, you know, hey, if somebody lives in Minnesota, they're only using their pool four months out of the year because it's frozen the other eight months, versus somebody who lives in Arizona, where they might be able to use their pool year round.
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Not only are they able to use that tool longer, also, if they live in Arizona, because of you know how much uh, you know just UV light and sunshine that they get down there, that tool is much more, or that pool tool is much more likely to break down if they're buying it.
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You know from you know that Chinese manufacturer that's selling on Amazon versus you know the, versus your brand.
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That's a much more premium product.
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Is that kind of at least so far, kind of a good description of how you're approaching this?
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Yeah, that's absolutely the way that we're looking at it, and obviously you can create audiences based around all sorts of different things.
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Amazon has kind of some semi-default audiences that you can use, and there's also there's tools out there that allow you to connect into AMC that have, let's say, pre-built audiences that aren't necessarily Amazon-built audiences, but they're pre-built queries, let's say.
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So to back up a little bit, the way that you utilize AMC to actually create these audiences is that you write SQL queries, which a lot of people don't know what that is.
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They have no idea how to do it, and so there's front ends, just like there is for sponsored ads, like PackView and things like that.
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So services out there that allow you to have a front end interface that's better than what Amazon gives you.
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There are interfaces that allow you to connect into AMC and they have pre-built SQL queries that will create an audience of a certain type, and so you can go through their list and be like oh, that's the kind of audience that I want, and you click on it and it will run the backend query in AMC to create that audience for you.
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And so you have that option of either manually entering those SQL queries or using some sort of a front-end interface to make that easier to do.
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Yeah, and I think, something else that I'd like to add to this conversation, just because things have changed over the last few years.
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So the first thing is that.
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So AMC is Amazon Marketing Cloud, I believe, is what that abbreviation stands for, and it used to be only for people that were using a display network or DSP, which typically you know and again I think this is changing pretty considerably as well where you know DSP used to have to have, you know, I think it was like 20 or $25,000 a month in dedicated ad spend in order to run DSP, and I think that that has come down pretty considerably.
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Where you know you can run DSP now for a few thousand dollars a month.
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That said, just kind of a little bit of a rabbit hole here is that you know, really sponsored products and sponsored brand, sponsored display are still very much you know, I would say, those fundamental block, you know blocking and tackling or building blocks for an Amazon ads account.
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So if you're struggling, you know, with getting sponsored products to work, the chances of you getting, you know, good return on investment from DSP is pretty darn low.
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So I just throw that out there as people that are like oh well, my, you know sponsored product to add a cost is much higher than I wanted to do.
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Let me try DSP.
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You know, I'm sure that there's a unicorn out there that gets a better return on DSP than their sponsored product ads.
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But for the most part most brands are going to be best served by making sure that they have their sponsored products ads squared away first and kind of maximize the opportunity there.
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That's absolutely true because not only if you're not good with sponsored ads, dsp is way more complex than sponsored ads is.
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So if you're not able to dial in your sponsored ads, then DSP is a rough route.
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And, quite frankly, sometimes we've had a little trouble with DSP, you know, partly because we've had some troubles getting our sponsored ads dialed in, but it's also because a lot of the value of DSP is remarketing and you're remarketing to people that you've gained from within sponsored ads.
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And so if your sponsored ads are not profitable on the front end, and then you're remarketing on the back end now you're just spending more money to get you know.
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so it's you really do have to get sponsored ads dialed in before DSP becomes super viable.
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However, like you said, now that AMC is applicable to sponsored ads, you don't have to go the DSP route.
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You can use, you know, sponsored display as kind of a mini DSP if you want, and use AMC to lay around those audiences to better target your ads.
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Yeah, and so a couple other things I would add into this.
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So you know again I just want to reiterate for people that maybe have heard of you know Amazon Marketing Cloud a couple of years ago and think you know DSP and that type of stuff that those two things don't necessarily have to go together anymore.
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Amazon Marketing Cloud, you know, works if, even if you're just you know, running sponsored product ads now, and it can be incredibly helpful in you know just the data that's happening there.
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The other thing is is that you know and I think you touched on a little bit, mike, and I think it's just worth double clicking on which is sponsored display ads now do a number of the things that used to be DSP only.
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So when you start looking at, you know, targeting different audiences, you start looking at retargeting, cross-selling, those types of things like sponsored display ads can now do a lot of those things without having to have a DSP account.
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So you know there's a lot of different ways to approach this, but at the end of the day, I think you bring up a really valuable point here, which is you know we're really familiar with targeting based on keywords, but really from an Amazon standpoint, yes, where the platform isn't as rich in audience or hasn't been in the past, and this is an opportunity really to take advantage of that where other platforms for if you've ever run meta ads before does a fantastic job with audiences and taking some of those same principles and applying it to how you're running Amazon ads.
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Audiences are super, super powerful.
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Like you were saying, john, keywords we've been targeting with keywords on Amazon and Google for a long time, but being able to do both.
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I know that this particular Tactics Tuesday is about geo-ranking and how we're going to implement that, but the amount of things that you can do with audiences on DSP historically, but now sponsored display, and now you can use those same audiences and layer them on top of the keywords that you're already using, I mean it's so, so, ridiculously powerful because, like Mike said, I mean you know, year round we're targeting just everyone, everyone searching for, for anything.
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I know that in Michigan in December, most people aren't searching for pool poles or pool brushes, however, there's ads being served to them.
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So so being able to layer on an audience, either demographic or retargeting or something along those lines, and also in sponsored product there, like my I think Mike touched on this just a little bit you can actually they're expanding how you can target within sponsored products, like now there's a couple of other audiences you can.
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Actually they're expanding how you can target within sponsored products, like now there's a couple of other audiences, like for the for Port ProTuff, there's a B2B you can.
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It's almost like it's a bid adjustment so you can.
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You can raise your bid based on who the audience is and like we've started doing that for the B2B audiences.
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But there's also retargeting on sponsored products with those bid adjustments as well.
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So they're starting to open up all of these really, really super cool ways to target people within sponsored products.
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But with AMC, I mean having allowing other people to access AMC that aren't using DSP now opens that up to the rest of us and that's really what we're playing around with, specifically with the geo-targeting thing.
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But it's super exciting.
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I mean, once we figure out the geo-targeting thing and who that pool professional is and then be able to layer on other audience kind of demographic type stuff on it, that's when things really start to scale.
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Yeah, and I think those modifiers are really important too.
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I mean, I know you know top of search has had a modifier for a long time and you know there's definitely solid.
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Strategies have been used for a long time of, you know, having lower bids and then using that modifier to get as much of that top of search as possible.
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Because if you look at, you know now that Amazon shows us those stats, you just see so much better clicks and conversions on that top of search in a lot of cases.
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Now, obviously that you know a lot of brands have gotten very aggressive as they've seen top of search work really well.
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The nice thing about this is that, hey, you might have some competitors.
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In fact, mike, you probably are a good example If you have a lot of competitors that that B2B market probably isn't their strong suit, and so by being able to add that modifier specifically for B2B, where you know strong suit, and so by being able to add that modifier specifically for B2B, where that's an audience that you can serve significantly better, that gives you a huge advantage?
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Yeah for sure, and one of the things that we noted not too long ago was just how valuable that B2B customer was to us.
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So the average order value for those B2B customers on Amazon is nearly 50% higher than for non B2B customers.
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And then, in addition to that, we were finding that our conversion rates were considerably better for B2B and so, therefore, obviously, click rates, or click costs, you know, are lower.
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So we were able to take and do that modifier so that we can more specifically target those B2B customers.
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And one thing that it's, I think, it's important to recognize is you have an opportunity, through your Amazon advertising to this is a bad word, but I'm going to use it anyways to manipulate your Amazon stats overall.
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Right, and this is you know, the more of your sales that run through ads, the more, the more you can do that because such a high percentage of your sales are running through there, like for ProTuff, unfortunately.
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Obviously you don't want that to be the case, but if it is the case, then your ad strategy can really kind of manipulate your overall numbers for your product in the right direction or the wrong direction if you're not doing it well.
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So, in other words, amazon is taking into account when they're looking at organic ranking and things of that nature.
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You know what is the standard conversion rate of your product.
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What is the standard click-through rate of your product.
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You know for certain keywords your product what is the standard click-through rate of your product for certain keywords?
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So when they're looking at the numbers, if you are very careful with your Amazon PPC and you're targeting properly so that you're targeting the right individuals who are going to give you better conversion rates, better click rates, not only do your ad costs go down, but your overall stats for that product and that ASIN go up and in Amazon's eyes then there's a good chance that organically you will rank better as a result of it.
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So don't underestimate the value of being able to kind of manipulate those numbers with your PPC.
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Queuing Matt or Mike?
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We're going to call that queuing.
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We're queuing.
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I did say it was a bad word.
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I wasn't coming up with a good one though.
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But yeah, I mean, it is a great point.
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As far as you know, especially, I mean, again, we have a magic wand.
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We'd all love to back in the days where, you know, 70% of our sales were organic and 30% of them were ad based.
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And especially, if you know, depending on where you are in your category and what category you're in you, if you know, depending on where you are in your category and what category you're in you know, you know it's one of those things where, unfortunately, that's just not the case anymore.
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But you do bring up a good point as far as, like, how you can take advantage of that and especially, making sure that you're pushing, you know, campaigns that really are focusing on those right keywords if that's what you're trying to rank for and do you have good conversion rates to really give?
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You know Amazon that the queuing data that your product.
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We're signaling Amazon.
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There you go, that you know it has the statistics that they're looking for.
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So I think that's a very valid point looking for.
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So I think that's a very valid point Trying to think of what else would be important, as our audience listens to this, when we think about AMC and geo-targeting.
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Well, a couple of things that I could add would be just as we've walked through.
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This process is getting AMC added to your account is not as easy as a lot of people have made it sound.
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Supposedly, you can contact Amazon directly and make that happen.
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However, if you do expect to wait many, many weeks before it actually gets implemented if it ever gets added to your account at all However, running through a provider of some sort, an agency or whatever something like PackView as a service or something, they can get AMC added to your account and they have much more sway.
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So it will actually happen, and what I did confirm the other day was that once it's added, even if you step away from that agency or from that service, say like PackView or something you maintain AMC access and you can access it directly through your advertising console within Amazon.
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So if you want access to AMC, the fastest way to get it is to go through an agency or a service of some sort and get them to add it.
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I don't recommend signing up for some agency just to get AMC and then leaving the agency.
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That would be really crappy to do to somebody.
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However, I'm just letting you know that's the way to get yourself in the door and if it turned out you didn't want to continue using that agency because they're not really fulfilling your needs, you can step away from them and maintain that AMC access.
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I would also say make sure okay I mentioned earlier that you can use those interfaces to create SQL queries that it will create an audience and you can use pre-built queries based on the audience type that you want to create.
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I would say that you're likely going to want to get to the point where you can create those manual SQL queries yourself in the backend, within your Amazon ads console, and the best way I can suggest to do that is to either utilize one that's already been created or create your own custom GPT that knows how to generate SQL queries for AMC, and then you just go into the custom GPT, you tell it the audience that you're trying to target and it will generate the SQL query that you can just paste into AMC.
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So you don't have to be an SQL expert to do it, you just have to be decent at creating a custom GPT that can do that for you.
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Yeah, and there's probably.
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I bet, if you did enough searching out there, I'm sure there's a GPT.
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I know there's at least one that exists out there, because Matt's the one that pointed it out.
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Monsoor from incrementum actually put it together it's amazing Tip of the hat for him.
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I figured if somebody had it that would probably be him.
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So, all right, fantastic.
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Well, I think, as we wrap up, I think that probably the biggest thing that I would say is get access to AMC.
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Reasonably speaking, it would be silly to not do that, because you're probably going to do some testing with it and you're going to think there's some audiences that are going to be good for you and they're not going to work out.
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They're not going to work out.
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However, if you keep testing, you will find audiences that will improve your performance on your sponsored ads and also DSP, if you're using DSP.
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So get access.
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Whatever the.
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You know whatever you need to do to get access.
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Get access and then test it.
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You know, like really start thinking through.
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You know, use chat, gpt or some other AI to discuss.
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You know, like prompt it to say this is what I have access to, this is what I can do with AMC.
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How should I use it?
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This is my product.
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This is the current avatar that we sell to.
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These are our stats.
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You know what are ways, creative ways that I might be able to use AMC and create new audiences to potentially improve our performance.
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I guarantee you that ChatGPT or some other AI will give you some really good ideas of audiences that you should try and create and test to get better performance, and I'm absolutely certain that at least some of them will be productive for you, and so I would just say move, don't wait, do something with it.
00:23:10.430 --> 00:23:19.672
Okay, yeah, and I would also add just you know again, you know sponsor display has some great capabilities now and whether you know the people that I've seen that are the happiest that I think.
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Spent man, I think we've got to silence some notifications, all right, anyway, I think, as we wrap this up, see, we do this live, as evidenced.
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So, I think, looking at sponsored display and audiences and knowing that, like you, don't have to wait until you have AMC or DSP in order to do that, the other piece of advice that I would give is that what's different about audiences is it's very creative dependent.
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So, you know, be prepared to invest some time in good creatives and testing out creatives and those types of things in order to be successful.
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That said, you know, think about it.
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As you know, an additional tool in your tool belt, and I think we're going to see a lot more of Amazon's advertising going towards, you know, audience targeting.
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That does involve having good creative in order to be successful.
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So if you're starting on that now, I think you're going to be in a good place in the next couple of years as the platform changes and starts leaning into more audiences as opposed to keywords.
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For sure, I agree, all right, and with that, I think that's a great place to wrap for today.
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Thank you everybody for listening and we'll see you on another Tactics Tuesday.