035: Tactic Tuesdays: How To Win Friends & Build a Community

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Welcome everyone to the Brand Fortress HQ podcast.

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Today we have another Tactics Tuesday episode, where we're going to discuss the power of being a part of the Amazon community and really creating a network in the way that is powerful for both you and your brands, in order to provide opportunities that maybe you'd never be able to stumble across yourself, or solve problems that maybe have been really plaguing you for a long time.

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So, starting off on this topic, I'm actually going to turn it over to Matt to discuss an example of how being a part of this community has given him some opportunities.

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Yeah, so it actually goes back even farther than me being in the Amazon community.

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One of the first recommendations, actually, my grandfather gave me one book recommendation in our relationship and it was how to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie.

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That book, when I read it, I read it.

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I was too young to actually really understand how powerful what was taught and that book really was.

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It really formed and shaped how I approach all relationships, whether they be personal, business.

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I'm in sales, so like it's actually how I start those types of conversations too.

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But really a lot of what it talks about in how to win friends and influence people is it talks about how people's inherent desire to selfish, but not in a bad way, like people like to talk about themselves and the things that they're involved in and that's really how I start all conversations.

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Like when I'm meeting someone new, it's really all about them for me and I really want to understand who they are and where they came from and like that's again, that's how I approach all relationships that I have and and you know, that way of dealing with people has presented a lot of opportunities for me in both inside of the Amazon community and outside of the Amazon community.

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It's how I approach every single conversation and really what sparked this conversation here that we were having today is just recently.

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Within the past couple of weeks, you know, I have a every other week poker game with some buddies here in my new place where we live here in Houston and it has that you know, a buddy of mine that was formed over a table of poker turned into a conversation about business.

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I learned a lot more about what it is that he does.

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He's an investor and I kind of understood that from our kind of hanging out at the poker table.

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But I didn't really know to what level of investor that he was.

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And when I was going to him about I was looking for how do I raise money for a new brand that I want to start if I don't have the capital on my own to get it off the ground?

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And it was really just kind of a conversation that I wanted his advice on and that conversation it evolved in took so many twists and turns that I wasn't prepared for.

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And now you know we're going to be business partners and he has as much capital as I need to get it, get business off the ground and he brings so much more to the table.

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But that conversation with him never would have happened if I didn't learn how to approach relationships and conversations in the way that that book taught me.

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So that's what sparked the conversation with you and I, but with all of the three of us, and how that translates in the Amazon community is, again, I approach for both of you.

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That's how our relationship started is exactly in the same way.

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We started with a conversation.

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It kind of evolved into a little bit more and I consider you guys to be some of my best friends, not only just in the Amazon community but in general.

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And it started with that same way of approaching a conversation and just being very interested in what the other person had to say and interested in what their background was.

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And again, like that has provided so many opportunities over the course of the last decade for me in business.

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Well, you know.

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And what's what's interesting about that, matt, is I think that you know.

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Number one certainly it plays into, you know, just the psychology of human relationships, as you said.

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You know people kind of like to talk about themselves.

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You know they like to know that somebody is interested in them.

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But you know also, when you, when you start that conversation and you ask them about that, you know like you want to know.

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Right, there's value in that in the sense that you learn what they know, what they're good at, who they're connected to, what you know like you're.

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You're building this kind of Rolodex right when you know not only are you creating a positive you know relationship there with them because they liked the fact that you asked about them, but at the same time you learn a lot.

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You know relationship there with them because they liked the fact that you asked about them, but at the same time you learn a lot.

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You know like not only just in terms of maybe some of the wisdom that you might gain from things they know, but also just what things are they connected to and what skill sets do they have.

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And you know what people do.

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They know that down the road you know may end up proving useful and the more you build that relationship, the more opportunity that you have to tap into.

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You know the things that and people that they're connected to, that you're not and I would say for me, you know, it's been not that much.

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I think about a year and a half since I started attending maybe two years, but I don't even think it's quite two years since I started attending events of any, but I don't even think it's quite two years since I started attending events of any sort.

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I mean, I've run my business since 2014 in the Amazon space and since God knows, when I started 96, 90, maybe before that in e-commerce, and I've been pretty much lone wolf that entire time until I started attending Amazon conferences and in that year and a half, the number of people that I've met, the number of connections that I've made, the number of opportunities that have opened up for me that would not have opened and I wouldn't have even known existed, you know, is immeasurable at this point.

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I mean, as you said, just this opportunity to be on this podcast, you know, and have this opportunity, you know, to start the mentoring program and to, you know, be speaking, you know, at certain events and connecting with certain people would not have been possible had I not had that conversation with you, matt in Austin, would not have been possible had I not had that conversation with you, matt and Austin.

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So it's immeasurable the benefits that stem from it.

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Yeah, and I think one key takeaway there that for people that don't do or are like, well, is it really worth it to fly out to an event?

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Because I mean it does take a lot of time and energy to go out for an event for a few days, you know, getting on an airplane, going out there, sitting in all the conferences and all that type of stuff.

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And I think you know what probably doesn't get calculated as much as, at least for me personally, as, like, for example, I went to, you know, amazon's Accelerate last fall, which was a great conference.

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Now, were the?

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Was it because the speakers were phenomenal?

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Not particularly, to be quite frank, it was very, and that was the first time I'd been at that particular conference.

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But it was very interesting to see how Amazon thinks Amazon works for third-party sellers versus how it actually works, which is probably a whole other discussion for another day.

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But there was a ton of great people that I met from that conference that are a great resource, and I don't mean that from a selfish standpoint in the sense of how I can help them, but then also, if I've got questions or I've got a client, that's not a good fit for me, but I know that they can help them with something that they're struggling with.

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So I think that those events are a great place to start, because, at the end of the day, we're still much better at connecting in person than we are online, quite frankly.

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But also there's a lot of great communities online.

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I think at this point, the only thing I would say is that just be careful If you ask a question or you ask for advice, just like you wouldn't take advice from some random person that you meet on the street, don't take advice from some random person in the Facebook group or whatever it happens to be, because there's, quite frankly, a lot of bad advice in there.

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But there are a few key people that still LinkedIn, facebook, that type of stuff that do spend a lot of time in those places and, quite frankly, give amazing advice for free.

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So, you know, just make sure that you're tuned into who knows really what they're talking about, especially if you're doing that online.

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Sorry, go ahead.

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No, sorry, I was gonna say, john, that was the first conference that you, at that conference, you and I met for the first time in person.

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At that conference, if I remember, and we actually and so like we've been talking for a year and a half already on in this format, but that was the first time that we had met in person.

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And I don't know about you, but like there's something different about being able to shake someone's hand and break bread with them.

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You know, like I feel like you know, you and I connected on a whole nother level by just by being in the same room and sitting in the same conference at that place.

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Which, matt, is precisely why I'm going to continue to push for you to move to Puerto Rico, that we have more opportunities to sit and break bread, right.

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I was going to say, though, you know, like like the you were saying, john to be careful about the advice that that you take and that you receive and, let's say, implement or you know, whatever.

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I think one of the keys that that is probably worth paying attention to there is all advice, to one degree or another, is probably useful, even if it's coming from a place of, let's say, relative ignorance, and I mean that I don't mean that in a really negative way, except to say, even some newer sellers or individuals who are somewhat new to the space or e-commerce or whatever, oftentimes they still do have interesting things to say and information that can be useful.

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The question is, if they give advice, I think the key there is to vet the advice right.

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Don't ignore it, you know, just because they're not an expert or a guru in the space, I think we have to be careful not to ignore you know information that's coming in from those sources, but, as you said, you have to be careful because if you just implement it, cart launch, and you don't vet that information to verify that it's really accurate.

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You know you could do damage, and so you do have to be careful with that.

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Yeah, and that's a great point, and I do want to clarify a little bit there, because and that's a great point, and I do want to clarify a little bit there, because, typically, I mean first of all especially, you know it's great to take advice from.

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So, if you're a newer seller, definitely talk to newer sellers, because if you talk to somebody who's already doing, you know, $10 million, $50 million, like their advice may not be applicable to you.

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So you're right, I mean just because it's great to take advice from people who are on that same level, I think in the online space, and maybe this is, I think this is easier to see offline than it is online, which makes it a lot harder to kind of suss out, if you will, where, at least, what I found.

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In fact, I don't really spend much time in the Facebook groups just for this reason.

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It's because there's a lot of people that provide answers that are, quite frankly, just wrong, because they see Facebook as a marketing mechanism for whatever service that they're trying to sell.

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Yeah for sure.

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And so that's where you need to be careful If somebody else, if it's another seller or somebody who actually knows what they're talking about, I think that's where there's a ton of value and I think it's still worth it in order to go to those places.

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In fact, if we're talking about online, the way I started to approach that rather than going into the groups, is I have a list of probably at this point, you know, about 20 to 25 people on LinkedIn that really post regularly good content that's related to LinkedIn.

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That are experts, and what I do is I look at their content on a regular basis and ask questions based on that, and I have found that works 10 times better than the Facebook groups, because they've just gotten overrun, unfortunately, by a lot of overseas folks that have been given a template on.

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This is how you try to sell people on your services.

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Sure, that's how I cut my teeth in this whole space was Facebook groups, and back six or seven years ago they were a lot more valuable.

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Like you, could ask a question and get really, really good advice, and I don't know.

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I think I've been able to track it down to one particular giant Facebook group.

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I think it's Pakistani based, but they're VAs or they're wanting to be in this space and I think that it was actually part of their training on how to do this.

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And, like you said, john, it was basically when they first started.

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It was the default answer to every question was optimize your listing, optimize your listing, optimize your listing.

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And that went on for a while and then it was just gibberish.

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But now it's AI.

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It's very clearly an AI generated response and it's unfortunate because Facebook groups, like I said, used to be super valuable.

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And so for me and I know that John's in a couple I'm sorry Mikeminds now and those paid masterminds like I was in, I'm in Brandon Young's inner circle and he has Camp Ecom once a year now and like these people like yes, you know, I forged a lot of relationships in the Facebook group, but again, similar to Amazon Accelerate last year, going to Camp Ecom and actually meeting these people in person.

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And it's not just you're learning like you're in yes, you're in sessions and things like that.

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But and I think all three of us can agree on this Like, what is the most valuable for me at these conferences is the conversations that happen in the hallways or over eating or at the networking events.

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And, like I loved Camp Ecom you know some of the content I think was no-transcript and for me you guys are a big part of that.

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Yeah, it's not wrong.

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You know like we all hear it, but it's not wrong your network is your net worth.

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I think that it's an absolutely true statement.

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I also think that you know we've spoken a fair amount about, you know connecting with other.

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You know Amazon sellers in the space.

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You know through conferences and things like that, but connecting with those outside of the space, I think, is also a very valuable thing that we need to pay attention to as sellers, and I would say, even more so now than it ever has been in the past, for many of the same reasons as the arguments that we make for building a brand and fortifying your brand outside of Amazon's ecosystem, because that is the path forward.

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If you're selling on Amazon, the path forward is not, you know, pick this product and that product that look like they might be profitable and don't have a lot of competition, or whatever.

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The path forward is building a solid brand, and many who operate off of Amazon whether it's offline, whether it's e-com, whether it's something else they more frequently understand that value of building a brand and they have walked down that road.

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So getting to know those individuals who are selling in ways that don't really involve Amazon, or at least Amazon isn't their exclusive avenue of sale can be really useful in terms of the insights that they can share, some of the tools that maybe they take advantage of that Amazon sellers in the past haven't, because we haven't thought it was necessary, and now we're starting to recognize that it is.

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So setting up and really generating and valuing those relationships with people outside of this space, I think, is becoming more and more critical, and if you're not paying attention to that, you're probably also maybe fighting a losing battle.

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Yeah, I would say, once you've got some traction, that and again, for me personally, I mean being a part of an organization that has just entrepreneurs in general.

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I mean, yes, amazon is great, ecommerce is great, but even if it's just entrepreneurs in general, where it may not be 100% applicable, and I think, like you said, mike, it's great to have both of those things where, yes, you want to have your Amazon specific or ecommerce specific, specific.

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So you know, you guys have a lot in common, but it's also great to also just have connections with entrepreneurs that don't do exactly what you do.

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And I know, for me personally, you know I've invested in that and we've seen our, our business grow dramatically with because of information both from people that are very in depth in the e-commerce world, but then also, you know, do things that are entrepreneurs that do nothing to do with e-commerce and just talking about the fundamentals of running a business.

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Well, realistically, I mean, matt can speak to this because the guy who's looking to invest in him hasn't traditionally had anything to do with e-com or Amazon, but wanted to move into that space and really didn't know how he was going to make that move and Matt ends up being his entry point.

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So it's a very symbiotic relationship there.

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But had Matt been not really paying attention to that relationship and just building that friendship?

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Quite frankly, I mean, it wasn't as if, you know, that relationship was being built solely because he was looking for an avenue right, it was a relationship built for relationship sake, but being careful to make sure that you are forming those relationships with people that don't necessarily sell on Amazon.

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It's one of the things about Puerto Rico that I found so valuable.

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I mean, I love the weather, I love you know, and there's a lot of things that I like about being here, but one of them that is the most interesting to me is the number of individuals, really high caliber individuals, that I'm meeting and forming relationships with down here that have nothing to do with Amazon, many who have nothing to do with e-commerce, but they're brilliant, you know, and some of the things that they have to share I would never hear if I was only, you know, stumbling around in e-commerce circles.

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Yeah, so this guy at this poker table that became a really good friend of mine.

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I mentioned that the value that he brings far exceeds the amount of money that he's willing to invest.

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He has his PhD in finance.

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He started a fractional CFO agency, started out in the medical community but wants to be in e-commerce.

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His girlfriend's daughter is starting a digital marketing agency.

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All of these things that he brings to the table have nothing necessarily to do with e-commerce, but there's a lot of things that are valuable in this type of a relationship.

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I mean, mike, you just hired a fractional CFO.

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This guy wants to get in.

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Having a fractional CFO is a lot different than just having a bookkeeper.

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They get so much more involved.

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He's part of so many businesses that he's been a part of and sold, and that's why he has this money to invest.

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But one of them was a medical device company.

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So he has experience actually going to China and going to South Korea and talking to manufacturers, and he has experience with negotiating rates with manufacturers.

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He brings so much to the table that we're going to be able to leverage with our e-commerce brands that have nothing to do with e-commerce.

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But having all of that stuff out of the gate.

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It's insane the value of those things if you put it all together and it's going to allow us to grow our e-commerce brands a whole lot faster.

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And again, the conversation that I had with him wasn't even about investing, but it turned into that just because of just how I approach every conversation that I have.

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So it can't be understated how valuable it is, just like when you tell people what it is that you do and they have a genuine interest and vice versa, so many things can happen, things that you weren't even expecting.

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So I'm curious.

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So I think at this point, you know probably folks are listening to this if they don't already have that community, you know or like okay, so how do I, you know, if they were?

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Because I think about, like Mike, you've talked about it you know the Mike from three to four years ago where you were just kind of solo, building your brand, doing your thing, without any of that really community.

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So what advice would you guys give to folks as far as or listeners, to kind of start that process, or maybe some easy on-ramps for starting to build that community?

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I mean, for me I would say the easiest on-ramp likely is going to a conference, just a single conference.

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And I would say an Amazon conference makes sense.

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It's the space that you're in.

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You're going to have a lot of common interests there, obviously, common struggles.

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So I would start there and I think the only other thing that I would say is A it probably almost doesn't even matter what conference it is, because there's going to be other Amazon sellers there that you can connect with.

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That those relationships will be valuable.

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And then I would probably hang my hat on what Matt said earlier, which is people love to talk about themselves.

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They love to know that somebody else is interested in themselves.

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So if you're not an individual who tends to be very outgoing and forms these relationships with people easily, I would say attend the conference, pay attention to the content.

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But that's probably the least valuable thing about that conference that you're going to find.

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Make sure that you take advantage of opportunities in the hallway.

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You know, when you sit down and you're waiting for a speaker, whatever it is, and just ask somebody what do you sell?

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It's an Amazon conference.

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You know they sell something.

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They're probably not there unless they do If they happen to be a service provider.

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Their answer is just simply going to be well, I don't sell anything, but this is what I do.

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So if you just have that question on the tip of your tongue, what do you sell in a conference where you know most of the people there sell something?

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That is the easiest entrance point to a conversation with that person and they're going to be happy to tell you what they sell.

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And that'll be the beginning of that conversation and you can find out whether that's a good relationship and somebody that you enjoy talking to.

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But that would be my recommendation.

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I think that's probably the simplest way forward Find an Amazon conference, take every opportunity you can to ask somebody that question.

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Yeah, and take every opportunity you can to ask somebody that question.

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Yeah, and I would even throw on there you know an additional question, if you know another option, which is I just ask people hey, what, what brought you to this conference?

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sure, yeah, yeah.

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They'll usually tell you hey, I'm an amazon seller.

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Or I work for this service or I work for amazon, so I have to be here.

00:23:53.883 --> 00:24:04.439
You know, whatever it happens to be Sure yeah absolutely One of the before I give my easiest thing to do, to kind of take advantage of the tips that we're giving right now.

00:24:04.439 --> 00:24:09.297
One of the things I wanted to say, in in regards to what you just said, mike, what I've learned at these conferences like.

00:24:09.297 --> 00:24:17.887
So I've been in the space, in the agency space, for a while, so I work for a service provider, so I know a lot of the other service providers, I know a lot of the high-level sellers.

00:24:17.887 --> 00:24:33.336
So the rule that I've made for myself when I do go to an Amazon-specific conference is when it's lunchtime I sit at a table where I don't know any faces, because it's very easy, it's very comfortable to sit at a table with friends or people that you talk to all the time.

00:24:33.336 --> 00:24:48.380
But if you're stepping out of your comfort zone and you really want to create these genuine connections, you know, over breaking bread and eating with someone like that, there's something very powerful about that type of a relationship and starting off a relationship like that.

00:24:48.380 --> 00:24:51.296
So that's one thing that I'll say in terms of conferences.

00:24:51.375 --> 00:25:07.837
But for me, what I'll say like the easiest way to like implement some of the things that we've talked about today is I really highly suggest reading that book if you haven't yet, and even if you haven't like, I read it before the last conference just to freshen up on some of the things that's taught.

00:25:07.837 --> 00:25:10.855
But how to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie.

00:25:10.855 --> 00:25:31.335
Really it completely transformed how I look at having a conversation with someone, and it's not even like I don't do it for selfish motives, like I genuinely come to be very interested in someone's background and like they, people, other people, like you said, mike, they like talking about themselves.

00:25:31.335 --> 00:25:35.154
So it's a really really good way to start any sort of conversation.

00:25:35.154 --> 00:25:37.883
So I highly suggest reading that book if you haven't.

00:25:38.505 --> 00:25:44.248
Yeah, and I'll leave with a tip of whether you're online or in person, get curious and ask questions.

00:25:45.415 --> 00:25:52.169
I'm a genuine believer that every person you run across has something that you can learn from them.

00:25:52.169 --> 00:26:00.184
So if you're curious and ask questions, it just speeds up your learning so much and you run into just the most fascinating people.

00:26:00.184 --> 00:26:13.920
When I was at the conference, just as one example, I ran into a guy that he was actually one of the first employees at Amazon, so now he runs his own agency and all this other type of stuff.

00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:30.282
But he was able to talk about hey, I was at Amazon from starting at about year two after they were founded and was sitting in meetings with Jeff Bezos and that type of stuff and went up through a senior level.

00:26:30.282 --> 00:26:53.503
So it was very interesting to talk to him about how Amazon evolved in the time that he was there and just the rapid growth that they went through, and really was great insight into, quite frankly, how Amazon thinks today, because a lot of those patterns and a lot of those decisions that were made 15 years ago at this point still kind of drive a lot of the direction and decisions by Amazon.

00:26:54.185 --> 00:26:59.757
Yeah, lot of the direction and decisions by Amazon.

00:26:59.757 --> 00:27:15.144
Yeah, one of the things just to tack on to that is, if I tend to talk a lot, just my nature try very hard not to, because I know, or at least I've learned over the years the more I'm talking, the less new information I'm receiving.

00:27:15.144 --> 00:27:26.316
If I'm speaking, then the only thing coming out of my mouth is what I already know, and I mean, maybe I know a lot, but there's way more that I don't know.

00:27:26.316 --> 00:27:41.803
So spending time asking those questions even if it's individuals that you're talking to who maybe are selling at a lower level or whatever that is, is valuable, because you're going to gain something out of that.

00:27:41.803 --> 00:27:47.578
And I guess, to follow on that, don't be the smartest guy in the room.

00:27:47.578 --> 00:27:48.821
You know.

00:27:48.821 --> 00:27:55.906
Try to be in a room where the people that you're in that you're with are smarter than you, so that you're gaining from from that experience.

00:27:56.816 --> 00:28:00.704
Yeah, so I guess I'm going to put out a challenge to our listeners out there.

00:28:00.704 --> 00:28:17.023
You know, if you're kind of thinking about how do I either start an app you know making friends in the Amazon space, or just in in e-commerce in general, or you're you know how do I continue to grow that friend list I would challenge you to reach out to one of us.

00:28:17.023 --> 00:28:20.121
So the easiest way to get ahold of me is on LinkedIn.

00:28:20.121 --> 00:28:28.806
Send me a friend request and send me a DM, and I love to hear from people that are actively building their brands.

00:28:28.806 --> 00:28:30.215
If you've got a question, great.

00:28:30.215 --> 00:28:44.335
If not, feel free to just say hi and then I'll offer it up to Matt, to you and to Mike, if you guys are game for that as well, and if you are, let me know where's a good place to reach out to you guys?

00:28:44.756 --> 00:28:45.938
Yeah, same for me, linkedin.

00:28:45.938 --> 00:28:53.478
I'll have to sift through the overseas VAs to find your message, but yeah, I love talking.

00:28:53.478 --> 00:28:55.221
So, yes, I will do the same thing.

00:28:55.221 --> 00:28:58.487
Linkedin is the best place to find me and I'd love to talk to any one of you.

00:28:58.487 --> 00:28:59.869
So good challenge, john.

00:29:01.095 --> 00:29:06.228
Yeah, and just put in there, I am not a started out with, I am not an overseas VA, and I'll get you to the top of the list.

00:29:10.174 --> 00:29:12.661
Yeah, LinkedIn would be fine Proto products.

00:29:12.661 --> 00:29:17.175
You can look me up that way, or just look up, you know, Michael Kaufman and you'll probably find me.

00:29:18.439 --> 00:29:19.141
All right, perfect.

00:29:19.141 --> 00:29:28.136
Well, guys, I think that that's a fantastic place to wrap and then, like I said for everybody who's listening, what I do is is challenge you to make a friend.

00:29:28.136 --> 00:29:33.617
If you don't know where to start, I just gave you three options in order to for three people that you could reach out to.

00:29:33.617 --> 00:29:34.839
So thanks for listening.