047: Tactic Tuesdays: Upgrade Your Hiring Process

WEBVTT

00:00:01.564 --> 00:00:04.091
Welcome everyone to Brand Fortress HQ podcast.

00:00:04.091 --> 00:00:07.990
On this Tactics Tuesday episode, we're going to be talking about the hiring process.

00:00:07.990 --> 00:00:22.768
We've talked a lot in other episodes about processes and when it comes to expanding, ads and conversion rates and lots of other different parts of our business, but we haven't spent nearly as much time on the other P that's really important for your business, which is the people portion.

00:00:22.768 --> 00:00:30.765
So that's what we're going to talk about today is having hiring good people and really integrating them into your team so that way you can continue to grow.

00:00:30.765 --> 00:00:36.689
And so, with that, I'm going to toss it over to you, Mike, because I know this is something that you've been working on quite a bit within your company.

00:00:37.899 --> 00:00:38.500
Yeah, it's.

00:00:38.500 --> 00:00:44.567
It's becoming increasingly evident to me that that the biggest bottleneck in our business is just that we don't have the people.

00:00:44.567 --> 00:00:47.252
I think that's the greatest.

00:00:47.252 --> 00:00:58.661
It's the biggest thing that most Amazon businesses are probably not doing right, and that is hiring enough people to do the jobs that really effectively need to be done regularly.

00:00:58.661 --> 00:01:10.069
I think there's a lot of jobs that end up being shunted off either to the owner or to some other individual that's on the team that maybe this isn't their primary job, but we need somebody to do it.

00:01:10.168 --> 00:01:17.442
So here you do this, and you know you can do that to a degree, but I think it's it can only go so far and it's definitely going to bottleneck things.

00:01:17.442 --> 00:01:20.710
So we're we're in the process of bringing on.

00:01:20.710 --> 00:01:27.743
One of my bottlenecks is is me for sure, and so I needed an executive assistant, and so we've been walking through.

00:01:27.743 --> 00:01:29.489
Just you know, shout out to Josh Hadley.

00:01:29.489 --> 00:01:32.349
He's got a, you know, an SOP that he's put out for hiring.

00:01:32.349 --> 00:01:35.121
That I think is terrific and we've been walking through that.

00:01:35.121 --> 00:01:41.406
So I just thought I would give kind of an update as to how that process is playing out for us in the business.

00:01:41.406 --> 00:01:46.867
And you know the things that have gone well, the things that maybe aren't going quite so well, or that we've learned something from.

00:01:47.560 --> 00:01:57.128
And I would say, one key takeaway that I really like from his SOP and, by the way, Ecom Breakthrough, I think is his podcast and his deal.

00:01:58.379 --> 00:02:15.074
But one of the things that he mentions in the SOP as kind of a critical piece is that he uses a software called, or a service called, CriteriaCorp and essentially that service allows you to grade your applicants.

00:02:15.074 --> 00:02:19.532
So, in other words, the process is on the front end.

00:02:19.532 --> 00:02:43.191
First of all, make sure you create a really good role profile for the job that you're hiring for, and one of the things that we did find was, in that process of kind of creating that role profile, one of the simplest things that we did that helped a lot was just asking chat GPT what that role profile should look like.

00:02:43.191 --> 00:02:53.794
You know what are the KPIs that you should measure for that profile, what are the job responsibilities that that particular position would likely have in most companies?

00:02:53.794 --> 00:02:55.365
What does that look like?

00:02:55.365 --> 00:02:56.645
What's their day-to-day look like?

00:02:56.645 --> 00:03:08.993
Things like that and everything that spits back isn't going to be right for your business, but the point is it gives back a lot of information that you might not have thought about because you've never had this position in your company.

00:03:09.479 --> 00:03:18.231
So just to clarify what would be the difference between this role profile that you're talking about versus a job description, which most people are probably maybe a little bit more familiar with.

00:03:19.241 --> 00:03:24.472
To be perfectly frank, I think the difference is really just one of a degree or depth.

00:03:24.472 --> 00:03:29.503
It's not as if you created a really good job description.

00:03:29.503 --> 00:03:32.811
I think, essentially, you've created a role profile.

00:03:32.811 --> 00:03:43.605
The problem is, I think, that most especially Amazon business owners, because many of us aren't trained in business this isn't our background, you know, so we're learning this as we go.

00:03:43.605 --> 00:03:59.352
Right, I think most of us are not very good at recognizing, first of all, what should actually even go into a job description, much less once we determine what those portions are, what the important aspects of that are, then what goes into that portion.

00:03:59.352 --> 00:04:03.233
So, in other words, you know, even if we were to think through and we were like, okay, there probably should be some KPIs associated with this role, what should those KPIs be?

00:04:03.233 --> 00:04:22.983
In other words, you know, even if we were to think through and we were like, okay, there probably should be some KPIs associated with this role, what should those KPIs be and what levels should there be, and how should we measure them, and those sorts of things, right, like you, get really granular, and so one of the things about Josh's SOP is that everything stems from the development of this role profile.

00:04:23.704 --> 00:04:27.132
So the first thing is, obviously you need to determine who do you need.

00:04:27.132 --> 00:04:33.886
So you know you kind of need to walk through this process of figuring out where are the bottlenecks in your business.

00:04:33.886 --> 00:04:36.088
So, in other words, you've got on two sides right.

00:04:36.088 --> 00:04:45.548
You've got on the one side, what are the big goals that you have right now in the business that are going to take you to the next level?

00:04:45.548 --> 00:04:49.511
And then, okay, if those are the goals, what do we need to do to meet those goals?

00:04:49.511 --> 00:04:57.533
And then, beyond that, then okay, what pieces of that puzzle can we not effectively do with the team that we have now?

00:04:57.533 --> 00:05:01.069
Who do we need on our team that's going to help us get to that next level?

00:05:01.069 --> 00:05:04.269
Because there's going to be certain pieces of that puzzle you probably don't have the people for.

00:05:04.771 --> 00:05:34.101
And be really careful with that, because it's really easy, I think, to make the decision, like I was talking about earlier, to say, well, so-and-so could do that, you know, and so-and-so could do this and so-and-so could do that, when in reality you probably I need a brand manager, or I know I need an executive assistant, or I know I need a supply manager, whatever that is, the good thing is is that ChatGPT is really good at then giving you ideas about what that should look like.

00:05:34.101 --> 00:05:44.610
So if you feed it and say I need to know what are the various things about this job that are critical, so what are the KPIs we should be measuring?

00:05:44.610 --> 00:05:45.992
How should we measure them?

00:05:45.992 --> 00:05:49.369
What does success look like with those KPIs?

00:05:49.369 --> 00:05:53.471
What should the regular day-to-day responsibilities be for that individual?

00:05:53.471 --> 00:05:57.310
How would we describe that if we wanted to post it on a job site?

00:05:57.310 --> 00:05:58.444
All of those things?

00:05:59.420 --> 00:06:05.944
Chatgpt gives back a lot of great information, especially with the newest version, the, whatever it is 4, omega or whatever it is.

00:06:05.944 --> 00:06:07.446
It's really good.

00:06:07.446 --> 00:06:16.050
And also, josh has put out a new custom GPT that's an HR manager, which I think would actually take that even further.

00:06:16.050 --> 00:06:19.286
I haven't had a chance to use it yet, but it looks like it could be really useful for that.

00:06:19.286 --> 00:06:40.081
But the point is then you're generating this role profile that gives you a really clear picture of what this person's role is, how they fit into your business, how you're going to measure their success, what, also, what skill set do they need to do this and what should their personality profile look like, and those sort of things, right.

00:06:41.122 --> 00:06:57.711
Well, what I like about that too, that I think may not be obvious on the surface, is sometimes having like yes, at the end of the day, we want to have the positive information of like hey, here's what I want for this role profile or position description or you know, whatever it is that we're using as kind of that framework.

00:06:58.411 --> 00:07:01.192
But the other thing is is also negative.

00:07:01.233 --> 00:07:10.177
Information can be very helpful as well, and I just want to kind of double click on what you said, which is, when you put it into ChatGPT, there might be things that you're like hey, this doesn't fit for my business.

00:07:12.721 --> 00:07:14.480
Actually, I want it more like that over there or I need to tweak this.

00:07:14.480 --> 00:07:31.939
But rather than starting with something that's completely blank, it essentially is giving you options so that way you can continue to narrow down what you're doing and giving you a lot of data to work with, to kind of figure out what's right for you, rather than trying to fill in those holes yourself.

00:07:31.939 --> 00:07:44.103
So I think that's just as valuable, looking at what chat GPT gives you in this case that may not be a good fit for your company to make sure that, to point you in the right direction, to know, hey, this is where I want to go with this position.

00:07:44.103 --> 00:07:46.411
Make sure that to point you in the right direction, to know, hey, this, this is where I want to go with this position.

00:07:46.411 --> 00:07:50.125
So even that data that may not be a hundred percent precise or right for your company is still useful.

00:07:50.747 --> 00:07:51.771
Yeah, absolutely.

00:07:51.831 --> 00:08:15.646
And even taking that, taking that another further, like so for me, I, the VAs that I've hired in the past, and we've I've talked about this very openly on the episodes that we've done already on hiring people, like I haven't had great experiences, but it was much more because of me and either the expectations that I had on the person that I hired or me not really having any sort of documented process for that person to walk into.

00:08:15.879 --> 00:08:37.817
But what I would use this for and, john, something that you just touched on is like if I'm looking for a very specific role, like an executive assistant, but then I use ChatG, gpt to what are the skills, what are the KPIs, what are the type, what is the, the personality type of a person for this role, but then I try to put that person into a lead generation role where it's a completely different job, completely different skillset.

00:08:37.817 --> 00:08:53.745
That person is going to be unhappy and using this sort of process that can stop me, as a business owner, from I don't want a jack of all trades Like I want a very specific type of a person that fits a very specific role and I don't want to put things on that person that isn't in their zone of genius and that's this role.

00:08:53.745 --> 00:08:57.009
This kind of walking through the chat GPT process can help with that.

00:08:58.360 --> 00:08:59.485
Well, and I think too there's.

00:08:59.485 --> 00:09:13.419
You know it's interesting, you know that you bring it up in that way because, obviously, giving Chet GPT the opportunity to flesh out what this person looks like and who they are, that's going to perform best in this position.

00:09:14.644 --> 00:09:24.701
Not only does it help you to know and well, okay, it helps you to know two things and I hadn't actually really even thought about it this way, but I think it could help in both ways.

00:09:24.701 --> 00:09:39.128
And that is A it helps you to realize that I shouldn't be using this person and this person and this person who are already on my team to do these things, because it's clear their skillset and their personality and whatever.

00:09:39.128 --> 00:09:41.178
Like I know them, they've been working with me long enough.

00:09:41.178 --> 00:09:42.140
I kind of know these things.

00:09:42.140 --> 00:09:44.966
That doesn't fit this right, so that's the wrong person.

00:09:44.966 --> 00:09:54.288
But by the same token, it might actually help you figure out that there's a person on your team who maybe you should consider for this role.

00:09:54.288 --> 00:09:59.840
Like, maybe they're already doing this, but it turns out like if, if chat GPT is telling me the right information that this is what this person looks like, that's Joe.

00:09:59.840 --> 00:10:08.278
Like Joe is the man for this, for this project, and maybe I should be thinking about whether I promote him into this or slide him into that role or take he takes on a portion of this role.

00:10:09.321 --> 00:10:10.364
But it gives you information.

00:10:10.364 --> 00:10:13.419
You know that you didn't have before and, like you said, john, a lot of it.

00:10:13.419 --> 00:10:31.198
You know probably not a lot of it, but but certainly some of it isn't going to apply to your business in specific, but also going back to previous conversations that we've had about just how to use ChatGPT, and to remember that it's a conversation it's not like genie in a bottle, exactly.

00:10:31.198 --> 00:10:33.984
You give it a prompt, it gives you back information.

00:10:33.984 --> 00:10:42.384
Then you respond back with well, I don't really want this, or our business actually only focuses this area and I don't really need this.

00:10:42.384 --> 00:11:02.239
It will regenerate, you know, or you can ask it what are because it's interesting with ChatGPT, interestingly, it'll give you a certain amount of information, which oftentimes is really good, but there's some information it didn't put in there and so, even just responding back with what are some other things that I should know, what are some other KPIs that we might use?

00:11:02.239 --> 00:11:04.501
Like, these KPIs don't really work for us.

00:11:04.501 --> 00:11:06.083
We can't really measure those effectively.

00:11:06.083 --> 00:11:18.301
What would be some alternative KPIs that we could use that would measure things that are important for this role want?

00:11:18.301 --> 00:11:28.541
You know, reinforcing the things that you do want or that you think are important will get you to that point where you've got a really good role profile, and we've spent a lot of time talking about that.

00:11:28.581 --> 00:11:48.926
But the realization that I had was it is critical that you get the role profile really dialed in, because once you get that very dialed in, it makes it much easier to write an actual job posting, you know, for Indeed or LinkedIn or Upwork, wherever it is that you're going to put your job posting.

00:11:48.926 --> 00:12:00.129
But it makes it much easier to write that job posting and get it right so that the people that are responding to your ad are the right people.

00:12:00.129 --> 00:12:07.306
Because the first thing is you don't want a whole bunch of people applying that really aren't fit for the job or that aren't going to like working with you.

00:12:07.306 --> 00:12:12.485
So giving them as much information as you can to establish this is what the job means.

00:12:12.485 --> 00:12:14.398
This is how we're going to measure you.

00:12:14.398 --> 00:12:19.178
These are the skills we expect you to have, and we're not going to hire you if you don't have these skills.

00:12:19.178 --> 00:12:21.303
And this is the way our business operates.

00:12:21.303 --> 00:12:23.207
This is our company vision.

00:12:23.207 --> 00:12:30.557
If you don't fit with that, please don't apply, but if you do, we want you, and so that's a good first step.

00:12:30.596 --> 00:12:31.942
And then CriteriaCorp.

00:12:31.942 --> 00:12:55.794
The nice thing about that is that once people start responding to that, you can essentially automate the process of weeding out the individuals who really aren't a good fit, because Criteria Corp has a lot of different tests available through their system that you can automatically have any candidate put through, and then you get back the data and Criteria Corp will evaluate based on that data.

00:12:55.794 --> 00:13:00.446
They'll say their personality type doesn't match the job that you're describing.

00:13:00.446 --> 00:13:02.926
Their cognitive aptitude doesn't really match the job that you're describing.

00:13:02.926 --> 00:13:05.577
Their cognitive aptitude doesn't really match the job that you're describing.

00:13:05.577 --> 00:13:14.047
But also the interesting thing is is that if you run them through the right tests, criteria Corp won't just tell you what they're not qualified for.

00:13:14.047 --> 00:13:31.927
It will also tell you the jobs that they are really qualified for, so that even if you have a candidate that doesn't fit this job that you're hiring for, you can maintain a database of individuals who have applied to this position but weren't right for it but are really right for some other position that maybe you might need in the future.

00:13:33.919 --> 00:13:35.003
What do those quizzes look like?

00:13:35.003 --> 00:13:40.486
I'm just curious Do you have an idea of how long does it take in a candidate in order to fill those out?

00:13:41.355 --> 00:13:43.020
So they're not super long.

00:13:43.020 --> 00:13:45.378
They don't take forever for them to fill out.

00:13:45.378 --> 00:13:57.351
I'll be honest that I don't know as much of the specifics as you might want to know, because I've got a person on our team who basically kind of set a lot of this stuff up and kind of walk through that process because I just didn't have the time for it.

00:13:57.351 --> 00:14:03.467
So she would be able to tell more specifically, like exactly what the questions look like and exactly how long.

00:14:03.467 --> 00:14:14.345
But from what I could remember from her describing it to me, it didn't sound like it was an excessively long process for them to take those tests and you get to decide which ones you actually want to run them through.

00:14:15.014 --> 00:14:16.894
Now, criteria Corp is not super cheap.

00:14:17.736 --> 00:14:44.304
I think we might have paid I don't know, it might have been $1,500 for the year or something like that but if you expect to hire for you know even just a couple of positions that are important positions within your business and you can, part of the nice thing about this SOP that I think is really critical to understand is you only have so much bandwidth within your business, whether it's you or whether you actually have an HR person who's going to be the one that's hiring for this position.

00:14:44.926 --> 00:15:01.738
They only have so many hours in a day and so if you don't have a fairly automated process on the front end of this to weed out the candidates that really aren't good candidates, then you can only take in so many candidates because you have to manually process and evaluate whether they're a good fit.

00:15:01.738 --> 00:15:07.024
So in that case maybe you only take in 10 or 15 or 20 candidates because you just don't have the bandwidth.

00:15:07.024 --> 00:15:42.863
But if you use this process of getting the role profile really nailed down, writing up a really good job description so that the person knows exactly what they're applying for, so that a lot of people aren't going to apply if they really don't feel they're appropriate for it, and then you run them through CriteriaCorp so that you get all of this data and it can weed out the ones that are definitely not you know within, you know applicable, you can get a couple hundred 300 applicants you know and whittle it down to like 15 or 20 at the end that those are the only ones you really have to pay attention to.

00:15:43.323 --> 00:15:44.105
Yeah, I'd be curious.

00:15:44.105 --> 00:15:46.509
I don't know if you've ever so Indeed has.

00:15:46.509 --> 00:15:53.316
I'm not as familiar with CriteriaCorp but Indeed does have like some of these skill tests and stuff like that.

00:15:53.316 --> 00:16:04.552
And so a couple of things just from my experience has been one, like you said, first of all, you know, get your, you know your role description and all the other pieces that you talked about downright.

00:16:04.552 --> 00:16:08.446
I think that's so important in this process to have a good hire.

00:16:08.446 --> 00:16:10.481
That from a strategic perspective.

00:16:10.615 --> 00:16:26.504
Then, at a tactical level, my experience has been because we use Indeed quite a bit is it's great to have a couple of these kind of questionnaires or something for somebody to fill out as far as skills, especially if it's crucial for the position.

00:16:27.245 --> 00:16:44.828
With that said, you know, there is kind of a GoldieBlox zone that we have found in this process where having one or two of those is great because you do weed out a lot of candidates or a lot of people who, like they just don't bother to take you know the quiz or you know the aptitude test or whatever it happens to be Well, great.

00:16:44.894 --> 00:16:56.432
If you're not willing to put in five to ten minutes, then you know it's probably not a good fit because I'm not going to have me or somebody on my team put in you know 15 to 30 minutes to have an initial interview With.

00:16:56.432 --> 00:17:06.625
That said, there is also a Goldilocks of like if you put ten of those on there, well now you're only getting the candidates that most of them are, quite frankly just desperate for a job, that they're willing to go through those hoops.

00:17:06.625 --> 00:17:20.201
And people who are really skilled might see hey, if I've got to spend two to three hours taking these questionnaires and aptitude tests just to see if I qualify for this position, my time might be spent better elsewhere.

00:17:20.201 --> 00:17:23.307
So I just am curious.

00:17:23.307 --> 00:17:27.865
My experience has been that there's definitely a Goldilocks in that process.

00:17:28.535 --> 00:17:46.737
I'm curious what Matt thinks on this also because what I'll tell you from our experience and we've only walked through this once this is the first position that we've hired in this way and I will say we haven't gotten to the higher yet, but we had hundreds of initial applications that came in.

00:17:46.737 --> 00:17:51.685
We have whittled it down to a.

00:17:51.685 --> 00:18:09.388
We had a final list that came through Criteria Corp at the end with and I should say to clarify, we ran them through I think two or three of Criteria Corps, like I think, the personality and the cognitive aptitude test and maybe one other on criteria corps.

00:18:09.388 --> 00:18:23.288
But then we also had a project Like if they made it through that and it seemed like they were good candidates, there was a project and I will say the project wasn't a five-minute project.

00:18:23.288 --> 00:18:27.586
So essentially for the EA, our project was we had four components to it.

00:18:27.586 --> 00:18:39.660
One was we gave them three customer service scenarios and we asked them to respond in the way that they would respond to the customer, because part of this EA position, there'll be a little bit of customer service involved in it.

00:18:39.660 --> 00:18:40.642
They'll have to take some of that on.

00:18:40.642 --> 00:18:42.025
There'll be a little bit of customer service involved in it.

00:18:42.025 --> 00:18:42.885
They'll have to take some of that on.

00:18:42.885 --> 00:18:55.018
And then we asked them I gave them some a sample of, like, my list of priorities, you know, for a week in terms of meetings, projects, you know, ideas that I've got, things that need to be researched.

00:18:55.018 --> 00:19:06.917
You know, put this into a schedule for for me and also for you, because some of this stuff you should be taking off of my plate, like not just scheduling into my day, but you should be saying, no, that's something I can do, you shouldn't be doing this, I'll do this.

00:19:06.917 --> 00:19:15.361
So they had to, you know, redo that into some sort of functional, you know schedule for the both of us.

00:19:16.323 --> 00:19:19.855
Then we had them record, and this was important to me.

00:19:19.855 --> 00:19:21.659
I had them record a short Loom video.

00:19:21.659 --> 00:19:23.742
That was just an introduction of who they are.

00:19:23.742 --> 00:19:29.199
You know, what have they done, why do they think they're qualified, why do they want this position.

00:19:29.199 --> 00:19:31.715
You know that sort of thing because it told me a number of things.

00:19:31.715 --> 00:19:32.839
One, it told them about them.

00:19:32.839 --> 00:19:39.981
But also I get to hear them because the job that they're hiring for, you know they're going to be talking on the phone to customers.

00:19:39.981 --> 00:19:44.028
Obviously, we need to be able to communicate with them as a team.

00:19:44.028 --> 00:19:45.679
So if their accent is super thick.

00:19:45.679 --> 00:19:47.384
That's going to make it tough, things like that.

00:19:47.384 --> 00:19:48.105
So I wanted to hear that.

00:19:48.795 --> 00:20:00.808
And then the fourth one was I just asked them a question which was describe for me the most difficult transition you've had to make in becoming the executive assistant for some executive.

00:20:00.808 --> 00:20:09.856
Why was it difficult and how did you navigate that process to make it, you know, functional for you and for the executive so that everything worked out?

00:20:09.856 --> 00:20:14.672
So it wasn't a super short, you know, project.

00:20:14.672 --> 00:20:18.118
It wasn't like a three-hour project but it wasn't five minutes.

00:20:18.118 --> 00:20:21.294
We had, like I said, we had a few hundred applicants.

00:20:21.294 --> 00:20:26.477
We had 15 candidates who submitted all of that.

00:20:26.477 --> 00:20:34.756
They went through all the Criteria Corp stuff and they submitted the project thing and, to your point, john, some of them weren't very qualified.

00:20:34.756 --> 00:20:37.248
I think they probably were desperate for a job.

00:20:37.848 --> 00:20:55.497
But at the same point we have eight fairly solid candidates that I'm going to do, I'm going to do two separate group interviews with, and then the two candidates, one or two candidates that are standouts from those two I'm going to put into a third and walk them through.

00:20:56.204 --> 00:21:01.516
Unless I do those two and there's really only one or two standing, you know, like, if there's obviously one, then I'll go with them.

00:21:01.516 --> 00:21:16.035
But the point is it's been a fairly lengthy and involved process and I feel like at this point we actually do have eight really solid candidates that I feel pretty confident at least one of them, if not more of them, are probably going to be well qualified for the position.

00:21:16.035 --> 00:21:18.518
Pretty confident, at least one of them, if not more of them, are probably going to be well qualified for the position.

00:21:18.518 --> 00:21:25.269
So it seems that maybe we have somewhat distinct experiences with it and maybe that's only because we threw a wider net.

00:21:25.269 --> 00:21:26.092
I don't know.

00:21:26.092 --> 00:21:30.029
You know we had a lot of people you know apply and we weeded out a ton.

00:21:30.029 --> 00:21:34.469
Maybe we lost some in the process, maybe there were some really good candidates in there that we lost.

00:21:34.469 --> 00:21:36.755
But the point is we've only got so much bandwidth.

00:21:36.755 --> 00:21:40.666
So I'm curious, matt, what are your?

00:21:40.686 --> 00:21:41.327
thoughts on that.

00:21:41.347 --> 00:22:08.365
I mean it's well worth the amount of time put on the front end to set all this up, because how much time you save not only in picking the applicant and weeding out ones that you didn't even want to interview, but then also dealing on the back end with making the wrong hire and that's that's been my story pretty much every single time is again a lot of it was my fault, but even if it was, wasn't the right person for the role.

00:22:08.467 --> 00:22:13.157
That was that's my job to, to be able to figure that out before I get them hired.

00:22:13.157 --> 00:22:20.291
And in a lot of cases I was just as desperate to fill the role as they were to find a job, and maybe even more so.

00:22:20.291 --> 00:22:30.810
So, like you know, what I've learned in this conversation and we've had it, we've had parts of it before is that every single thing that I did when I made it, my hires, was wrong, and I wasn't.

00:22:30.810 --> 00:22:40.371
I wasn't spending the time the right time in the right places in order to make that transition for me as a business owner easier to bring a person on.

00:22:40.371 --> 00:22:56.268
So I mean the amount of time that you're spending on the front end developing this process is well worth, and I think that $1,500, whatever it is to for that, for that, for those surveys, I think it's well worth the money expense, because I wasted more than that in making bad hires.

00:22:57.269 --> 00:23:04.058
Yeah, and I think you know listening to the process that you're describing, mike, is actually not that different from how we do our process.

00:23:04.058 --> 00:23:12.809
I think it's very similar, a little bit different tools, but at the end of the day, you know, the end process is what matters, because exactly what you're talking about I mean, we put them through.

00:23:12.809 --> 00:23:30.597
You know one or two kind of skills types of tests, especially if we're doing something like Indeed, and then we have the same thing where you know we'll have 300 people apply and there's just no way that one could we if we wanted to interview those, nor is that probably a good use of our time or the candidate's time to interview all 300.

00:23:30.597 --> 00:23:38.606
And so, coming up with easy ways to kind of narrow down, you know who are those good candidates and those surveys can work well.

00:23:38.606 --> 00:23:51.133
Again, I would just encourage people to look at you know, kind of going back to what you were talking about with that position of have those surveys really connected to what are the KPIs and what are the primary duties of that position.

00:23:51.133 --> 00:23:59.880
So that way you've got a couple of surveys to get a good picture of what you need, instead of putting them through a couple hours worth of testing, because you may not get what you want out of that.

00:24:00.502 --> 00:24:07.467
And then the other thing that we found really useful is just asking the simple question of hey, what interested you in this position?

00:24:07.467 --> 00:24:17.175
Because to me there's not necessarily a wrong answer, but it is always very interesting to me to see how long is that answer from somebody.

00:24:17.175 --> 00:24:20.736
Is it three words, or is it, you know, a well-written paragraph?

00:24:20.736 --> 00:24:27.294
Is it all about what they want out of the position or is it you know them talking about how they're excited about the work?

00:24:27.294 --> 00:24:36.085
Like there's just a lot of different components and, from a scalability standpoint, like it's pretty easy to ask that question and then again half the people don't even respond.

00:24:36.085 --> 00:24:38.169
Well, that makes it really easy.

00:24:40.173 --> 00:25:08.355
Yeah, I think I think the only other, the only two other things that I that I would probably add to this conversation that I think are valuable that we've learned is, first of all, I think, in in response to you know that that concern over losing good candidates because you've got them jumping through too many hoops, I think, a making sure that the hoops that you're having them jump through seem relevant to the job that they're hiring for, so that at least they recognize no, this makes sense.

00:25:08.415 --> 00:25:10.188
I can see why a business would want me to do this.

00:25:10.188 --> 00:25:48.874
Secondarily, though, and probably even more important than that, probably even more important than that, is the job posting, because if I'm a quality individual and I'm looking to work for a quality company, I should expect, if an actual quality company is hiring, that they probably are going to have some pretty stringent requirements that I meet in order to be qualified for that position and be brought on, and so I think part of it is qualifying for this candidate that you are actually a quality company to work for right.

00:25:48.874 --> 00:26:07.817
So if you don't do that in the job posting, if you don't make it really obvious that they're applying to a really good company, that's going to treat them well, treat them with respect, pay them appropriately for the work that they're doing, reward them for the things that they're doing that move the company forward.

00:26:07.817 --> 00:26:13.846
Then, if you have them jumping through hoops, they're going to just give up on it and say, well, this isn't worth it.

00:26:13.885 --> 00:26:18.315
You haven't proven to me that you're worth the amount of time that you're requiring me to invest.

00:26:18.976 --> 00:26:29.214
But if you give them enough information about your company and about the position and about what you're going to do for them and how you care for your employees and those sorts of things, I think you generate enough goodwill.

00:26:29.275 --> 00:26:46.711
On the front end of that, that even a really good candidate who maybe has a lot on their plate they've got a really good job, they work, you know, maybe semi-long hours they still would potentially be interested in jumping through the hoops that you've set in front of them, just simply because it looks like a good opportunity and they're willing to put that time in.

00:26:47.573 --> 00:26:56.316
The only other thing I would say is, on the back end of this, one of the things that we need to walk through right now is evaluating because ChatGPT exists.

00:26:56.316 --> 00:27:29.008
A lot of the materials that we're getting back from candidates that are written materials are chat GPT generated, and some of it almost entirely chat GPT generated, and so part of our interview process is going to be having some conversations about chat GPT and why they use it when they use it, how they use it when they shouldn't use it, because I want them to be well-versed in how to use it, but I also want them to be just as well-versed in when should I and when shouldn't I use it, when is it appropriate and when isn't appropriate.

00:27:29.229 --> 00:27:30.294
And how do I navigate?

00:27:30.335 --> 00:27:41.720
that, and that's actually going to be a part of the interview process, because there are a few candidates that look like pretty quality candidates, but they answered a couple of questions with almost entirely GPT generated content.

00:27:41.720 --> 00:27:51.095
That concerns me a little bit, because I kind of wish they hadn't done that, and so I need to have a conversation to find out what the details are around that.

00:27:51.095 --> 00:27:52.097
So just pay attention to it.

00:27:52.097 --> 00:27:52.846
It's a big issue.

00:27:52.846 --> 00:27:57.173
Right now, a lot of the content you're going to get back is going to be GPT generated.

00:27:57.173 --> 00:28:00.138
It's not necessarily a bad thing, but just be aware of it.

00:28:01.404 --> 00:28:02.147
Yeah, that's a great point.

00:28:02.147 --> 00:28:10.933
Well, as we kind of wrap up this episode, what are maybe a couple of action items that you would recommend for listeners?

00:28:10.933 --> 00:28:12.924
And I guess we'll start with you, Matt.

00:28:14.809 --> 00:28:23.768
I mean, there were so many gold nuggets in this conversation I would first thing I would do and I'm you know we've talked about me getting ready to hire make another hire this time.

00:28:23.768 --> 00:28:35.378
But with all of these, these, this insight behind me, I'm going to go back and personally and listen to this episode and make a bit of a checklist of all the things that Mike implemented in order to prepare myself for the next one.

00:28:35.378 --> 00:28:54.589
But the biggest one is I'm going to jump in and figure out, like I'm going to give you know, make a list of all the things that in the day that I do make sure to make a star next to the ones I think can be outsourced, and then throw those into chat, gpt and find the right person for that, so I can create a pretty good job description and a role description of that role.

00:28:54.589 --> 00:28:58.655
So those are going to be my own action items that I would also suggest other people take too.

00:28:59.958 --> 00:29:00.378
Very nice.

00:29:00.378 --> 00:29:01.500
And how about for you, Mike?

00:29:02.484 --> 00:29:05.211
Yeah, I think I mean first of all, obviously.

00:29:05.211 --> 00:29:10.367
I mean AI obviously is the big topic for everybody chat, gpt, you know among those.

00:29:10.367 --> 00:29:15.154
So it's a bit of a buzzword, but you know, don't skip it.

00:29:15.154 --> 00:29:24.987
If you're not really using ChatGPT effectively, you need to learn it because it helps in so many areas and I really do believe in this process of generating that role profile.

00:29:25.407 --> 00:29:33.474
It's really critical that you understand how to use it and prompt it and have a discussion with ChatGPT to get to the endpoint that you're looking for.

00:29:33.474 --> 00:29:35.429
So I think that's absolutely critical.

00:29:35.429 --> 00:29:41.030
I would also say there's a lot of value in looking what other?

00:29:41.090 --> 00:29:56.910
people have already done that worked and applying what you can to your business, and so I would absolutely say that if you can get your hands on Josh Hadley's SOP, head over to Econ Breakthrough, see if you can connect with him.

00:29:56.910 --> 00:29:59.307
I think it's a tremendous SOP.

00:29:59.307 --> 00:30:00.611
I think it's very effective.

00:30:00.611 --> 00:30:10.172
We're implementing the majority of it for this hire and I feel like at this point it's really materializing into something positive, so I would definitely point people in his direction.

00:30:10.172 --> 00:30:14.287
I think it's super valuable stuff and it's free he's giving it away.

00:30:14.828 --> 00:30:18.718
Yeah, we'll put a link to that in the show notes since, like you said, it is such a great resource.

00:30:31.172 --> 00:31:03.747
The last action item that I just feel like maybe didn't get as much airtime, but, mike, you actually brought up a really good point, which is is that having a well-written job posting that is first clear on what the role of the job is, but then also really sharing the mission and vision of your company, because I feel like we've gotten high quality candidates and people have told us hey, I want to work for your company because I thought your job description was really good and I really liked the vision that you guys had for your company.

00:31:03.747 --> 00:31:23.753
So I think, of all the things that we've talked about today, that is one of the gold nuggets that I've taken away, and I encourage our listeners to spend some time thinking about that job posting and how one they're sharing, that vision of what their company is doing and what that looks like over the next few years, and then being really clear on what that position is and what they need that person to do.

00:31:24.875 --> 00:31:25.096
Sure.

00:31:26.739 --> 00:31:28.971
All right, well, with that, I think that's a great place to wrap for this.

00:31:28.971 --> 00:31:29.775
Tactics Tuesday.

00:31:29.775 --> 00:31:33.756
A couple of just fantastic action items for listeners out there.

00:31:33.756 --> 00:31:41.528
If you're in hiring mode, this is an episode that you'll probably want to talk to Probably want to listen to at least a couple of times, like Matt's doing.

00:31:41.528 --> 00:31:46.817
Make a checklist for all the things that you need to do in order to have a successful hire as you expand your brand.