009: Mastering Smart Pricing: Strategies for Brand Success and Premium Positioning on Amazon

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hello everyone and welcome to the brand Fortress HQ podcast. This is one of our Tactics Tuesday episodes and today we are talking all about the art of smart pricing, and this is one of those areas where we think that there's a lot of opportunity for brands as they fortify on Amazon and beyond. And so to kind of kick us off, matt or, excuse me, mike, I'm going to kick it over to you because I think that you have an amazing story that really illustrates this point as we think about smart pricing.

Speaker 2: 0:30

Yeah, absolutely so. I've been selling on Amazon for close to 10 years now, but prior to that I had been selling online for quite a long time and one of the companies that I sold for was Amsoil, which is a synthetic lubricant company. They did high efficiency filters and you know super long-drain synthetic oils, that sort of thing. And what was interesting is for quite a number of years that I was selling for that company. We sold a Ton W-40 motor oil but we sold it to numerous different markets. So we sold it for automotive use, we sold it for motorcycle use, for ATB use, for trucks, and one of the things that was interesting is that we went to I went to the conference pretty much. You know, like every I don't know how many years it was they had held a conference and at this one conference they had this big reveal and the reveal essentially was their new motorcycle oil Ton W-40 motorcycle oil and they went through this whole thing and they were showing us the specs and how it compared against the other products in the category and how great it was for motorcycles and, you know was super awesome for, you know, clutch and slippage issues and things like that. And what was interesting was that, as we kind of, you know, were talking with the reps from the company and getting some more information about the product, that came to light that it was the exact same Ton W-40 oil that we had been selling all along. The only thing they did was put it into a new bottle and the new bottle said motorcycle on it and it was very specific, it was very targeted at that audience. You know, like the label, the messaging, the marketing, everything was very directed at that very specific audience and actually really almost even to a very specific subset of the motorcycle you know world, because it's not all motorcycles that took a Ton W-40, but the specific types of motorcycles they did. They were very directed at that. And what was crazy is one we sold a massive amount of that product way far and above what I had ever sold to the motorcycle market or all markets combined in that next year as a strictly motorcycle oil. But more importantly than that, it was priced higher, like that product the very same oil was. They put it in a new bottle, they marketed it specifically to motorcycle users and they priced it. I want to say it was like 25% higher than the automotive oil, which was the exact same product and we sold a crap ton of that product, and so it was just one of the very early you know opportunities that I had to see just how important it is, number one, to know the audience that you're selling to, and possibly to take a single product and divide it amongst multiple audiences and target them independently of each other, but also considering what should the price point be for that market? Because it's not just the product that determines the pricing, it's who you're selling it to that determines the pricing. And that was just a really a really good example, I thought, and it was a good learning experience for me early on.

Speaker 1: 3:39

Yeah, I think that's such a great example and I mean I just want to double click on a couple of things that you pointed out. There is, you know, one a big part of pricing is not necessarily the product itself, but it's you know how you're speaking to that audience. So, you know, in that story that you shared, I mean I can imagine you know the brands listening to this and you know thinking about what it would be like if they could just raise their prices 25% overnight with the same exact product to just putting some different packaging on it. I'm sure that they would do it in a heartbeat Because, I mean, in a lot of cases, when you look at your net profit at the end of the day, that's all profit that you end up putting towards the bottom line. So it has a massive impact on how much money you take home at the end of the day in order to, you know, invest in new products and really, you know, take as profit in the business and, however, you know you want to use that profit as you grow that brand. So you know, I think that's just such an important concept and especially we talk about first principles of making sure that you're, your product and your brand is speaking to the right target market and pricing accordingly, and I think that there's a lot of opportunity that's missed by Amazon sellers and I think this is one of those things that's going to set people apart. As we hear, you know all the competition from overseas and you know products that look the same and all those types of things, and you know it's really hard to differentiate yourself and your brand if you don't put the effort into speaking to that audience, because then, you know, price becomes the only differentiator and that is something that's going to be really hard to compete against somebody who essentially lives right next to the factory. So the one area that you know, I feel like, where we still have, you know, brands that are based in the US still have a big advantage is being able to speak much better to that target audience in a way that a brand overseas probably, you know, would have a hard time replicating.

Speaker 3: 5:44

Yeah, so in order to do this, you have to know your consumer, and the better you know your consumer, the easy it is to be able to pick things up like this. So, for example, like so for me, I sell in the barbecue category and I know my consumer pretty well. But as I started to advertise and launch products in this space, I know that people that smoke meet are more they're more serious consumers than the person the dad that grills burgers for his kids on the weekend. So I started gravitating more towards smoking products. I sell a product that I could also use grilling keywords for, but the average price point you can go into helium 10 and find the average price point for that same product with grilling in front of it as opposed to with smoking in front of it, and it's a $4 price point difference just just by adding smoking instead of grilling. So because I know that consumer really well, I know that that person. Not only are they more passionate about their craft, they're also more brand loyal, but they'll pay a couple more bucks. They in general pay a couple more bucks because their products they wanted to last longer and they want they're more brand loyal to their brand, so they're willing to pay that extra couple of dollars. So I know that because I know my consumer really well, and that was the same case with you, Mike, in the oil story.

Speaker 2: 7:02

Yeah, yeah for sure. And it's interesting because we have implemented that in our current brand, you know, in the sense that I mean we sell at a really premium price point in our category and obviously, you know, having the unlimited replacement warranty is a large justification for that price, but it's not the only justification for that price. Like we intentionally like. So for those who haven't heard before, we sell into the swimming pool market. We sell swimming pool cleaning tools, poles, brushes, nets, that sort of thing. And the interesting thing is is that obviously there are a large percentage of the swimming pools that are out. There are above ground swimming pools. Now there's a pretty high percentage that are in ground, actually higher than you might think. But you know, essentially it's about 50. 50 might actually even lean a little bit more toward, toward in ground pools, at least in the US anyways. But but the interesting thing is for us, because we're selling at that premium price point, because our products look better. We have a, you know, a very different color scheme for our products. They look very premium. You know we exclusively market to the in ground pool owner, like we're not even really paying attention to above ground pool owners. Now we could, and actually we're looking at releasing a two year warranty version of our products, which probably we would target more at that market because it'll be a lower price point. So it gives us an opportunity to split that audience target. But right now, with the unlimited replacement warranty and the high price point we target in ground price or in ground pool owners, because the pool cost way more than an above ground pool and they're much more conscious of not only taking care of that but also what does it look like? Because a lot of them have, you know, really nice landscaping and they've got it. You know, beautiful lounge set and everything else. You know they don't want this crappy looking pool pool sitting next to their, you know their swimming pool. But if they've got a rack over there and they've got this gorgeous heavy duty pole, you know sitting over there, that's a different color scheme than everything else out there and whatnot like for them. It stands out and the people who come to their house they see that and it stands out, it's different, it's stand, you know it shows that it's premium.

Speaker 1: 9:14

Yeah, and I think that that gets to. You know, getting the right people to click on your product. I mean, at the end of the day, you don't want everybody, you want the people that are the best people for your brand, and the more that you niche down that product, really it makes a lot of things easier. You know, a lot of decisions are kind of made for you as far as you know who's got the money to buy it, who's willing to buy it, who's willing to click on it, and then from there you're able to really tailor. You know your messaging and, again, this isn't just for a brand, it's all the way down to the product level. And I think that you know, mike, that's such a good example where you could have the same brand with kind of two different product lines that are set to you know, two different audiences, where you have, you know, one audience that the in-ground pool owners, who probably have a lot more money, really care about that visibility versus, you know, the above-ground pool owners who you know probably want a quality product as well, but probably don't care as much about you know what it looks like, necessarily, and you know, quite frankly, probably don't have the same level of income in order to, you know, buy a product like that. So I think that's where you know, really understanding how you're speaking to that audience. And then the other thing that I would argue is that you know, especially depending on where your product is in its lifecycle, being higher priced, you know, automatically sets you apart, so it challenges you to be better than the other brands on there and helps you stand out, and you just kind of have to live up to you know and explain why your product is, you know, 20, 30, 40% more than the overseas competitors that may be in your category.

Speaker 3: 11:02

So what I've, what I've definitively proved with my brand. I have a product that's very me to. There's 20 other sellers that are selling the exact same thing. Half of them are Chinese sellers that are selling it for 10 to 12 bucks less than I'm selling it for, and I was able to, over time, raise my prices just by making my, my creative better, by making a better image. I've been constantly testing my main image, comparing it to the competitors. Like I didn't change my product like Mike does. Mike, you've made your products better. You've included a warranty. I haven't done that like they wouldn't even really make sense in this space, but my main image looks better and I have a lot of UGC and my creative on my listing. I have a really good video like just that in and of itself has allowed me to raise my price point $10 than I when I started, and I'm selling against Chinese competitors that are selling it for 10 to 12 bucks less. So I've definitively, definitively proven that to command a higher price point which I like to be at the higher end of the price points as well just even better creative can get you there. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 12:05

And I think too you know it's interesting there is that one. I think it's. It's easy to overlook just how drastic an improvement in your actual profit margin percentage you're seeing when you have an increase. You know in your your price point because if you think about it, if the profit on your product is only 30% but you raise the price, say 20, 30% over the retail price, you might be doubling your profit margin. You know, like I mean it's, it's drastic, it's really significant, which affects all sorts of things, like at all cascades down, right, because that's not only cash flow, right. If you're doubling the amount of profit you make on every product, cash flow changes in an incredible way you know, giving you much more room in terms of being ready to place another order for the next round. You know, having less, less chance of stockouts because you don't have the money to buy the product. You know whatever you know. So that's it's so critical. But the other thing too, going back to what John was saying, you know in terms of like, differentiating between you know your, your markets and deciding who it is that you're gonna you're gonna target, I would say that ultimately, the big thing is now you should you should always pay attention to your target market for sure. But this is really critical at launch. You know, especially if you're in new brand, right, because you have to niche down. If you're going to make it in a competitive category as a new brand, you don't have any choice but to niche down. But the interesting thing about that is is that even if you continue to focus and be really laser focused on that niche, and especially if you're putting it at that premium price point, over time you generate more credibility within the overall space that you're selling in, so that eventually that high price point doesn't only appeal to the person who easily can afford that higher price because they have the more money. You start appealing to that customer who doesn't necessarily have the money for that, but they do have the mindset to spend that money. But they're waiting to make sure that the product they're buying at that price point is credible, whereas somebody who can afford to just throw that money out there, but they and they just kind of believe in that idea of paying the higher price for the you know the better product. You start expanding your audience, even if you don't change your messaging at all, because eventually it just expands out into those lower income buyers who recognize the credibility and are willing to pay that price point now that they wouldn't have earlier because you didn't have that credibility.

Speaker 1: 14:30

Well, I think the other you know kind of. So a few things that come to my mind. As far as that halo effect that comes from a higher price point is, first of all, you kind of weed out a lot of the, quite frankly, the problem customers that lead the very frustrating one star reviews and then return the product because they couldn't be bothered to, you know, read instructions that were in, you know, 30 or 40 point font, with, you know, pictures, that all but does it for them. So, one, it weeds them out. But then two, you know, from a cash perspective. But then think about all the things that you can invest in your brand If you have those higher margins where now you can afford, you know, much better creative, now you can afford to, you know, provide more value for your customers, whether that be, you know, through you know, education, maybe that's, you know, something that is entertaining to them, or it might be just something where you're able to just surprise them in a way that they didn't anticipate. That has such a dramatic impact, especially on Amazon, where I feel, like you know, we're still in the early days of transitioning from sellers of products to builders of brands on the Amazon platform.

Speaker 2: 15:47

For sure, for sure, I think we're definitely at the early stage of that. But at the same time, it's important to recognize that we are at the early stage of that, which means you know if you start doing that now, you're ahead of the curve. If you wait and you're not building a brand, you're going to be behind the curve and it's going to be way harder when you know everybody starts acting in that way because you're going to have to to be successful on the platform. You know you're not really going to have a choice in that matter. But something else that I think is important to pay attention to also is when you're looking at the price point that you're selling at so one you know you were talking about, you're kind of weeding out. You know of customers, right, which is important, and I would say that our premium price point we definitely see the quality of customer that we have is very different from the quality of customer that we see for other products in our category. You know most of them really are not problem customers and so from that standpoint alone, you win right. I mean like just then, just knowing that every day that you walk into business and also for your employees, right that every day that they walk in to do their job especially customer service people that you know it is in general going to be an enjoyable job because you're not spending all day long dealing with problem customers. You know like you're dealing with problem solvers, right. When people contact us with a problem, the individuals that we're talking to are individuals that are their intent is to solve the problem, whatever that looks like, right, they're not there to just complain. They're not there to just moan and whine and create problems. They're there to solve a problem. So as long as you can solve the problem and you do, they're happy. Right, they're not a problem customer. But the other thing is we have fewer customers, right, we don't have to sell, you know, 100,000 units this year, like we sell 50,000 units, but we make as much because of our premium price point. Our profit is as much as guys in our category who are selling 120,000, 130,000 units a year, and so we have to deal with the customer service and warranty issues for a much smaller subset of customers, which not only means that it takes less manpower, but it also means that we can treat every single one of those customers that much better because we just have more time and more resources to address them. You know we're not being spread so thin between you know. 120,000 customers, you know, versus 50,000.

Speaker 1: 18:14

Yeah, and I think the other thing important for people who are listening to us to keep in mind is that it's not necessarily an all or nothing system, in the sense that I'm really, as time goes on, a big believer that every product that you keep in your catalog should have a role and kind of the three major roles that I think of. I mean, I think at this point everybody's very familiar with what a hero product is that's really bringing in the sales, and those things are great. Where I see a lot of people have problems is that okay, you may have another product that isn't bringing in a ton of sales, but that's a great opportunity to have a complimentary product where you can have a lot higher margins because you're not necessarily going head to head with another brand for everybody out there that has that exact same product. Really, what you're looking at is incremental sales on somebody who already loves your brand and they want to buy from your brand that solution that solves their problem. So you can charge 20, 30, 40% more than what your other competitors are charging out there. And, yeah, you may not sell 10,000 units of those a month, but your profit margins on that product that's complimentary can be a lot higher. So the contribution that is giving to your gross margin is very, very healthy, and so each product can have a different role. And you can have products on the other end, too, where you can have products where you're selling basically at break even. They can still be premium products, but you know that those are the ones that are popular and are really just bringing people into your brand in order to get them some hands-on experience with your brand, so that way you can let your complimentary products and other you know Kuro products maybe even do the heavy lifting when it comes to your net profit margin. So having different roles for different products, I think, also gives you a lot more flexibility in how you price things.

Speaker 2: 20:22

Yeah, for sure. I think the other thing there, too, is that you know, let's go to the idea of kind of that tripwire product that you've got. You know you're selling maybe at break even or maybe even a loss. You know, I mean, like sometimes you know a loss leader, there's a reason, there's a name for that, right, like, I mean, it's a thing. So you know, it's not always such a thing that you need to make money on the sale. You know, maybe you lose a little money on the sale, but the point is, if you can sell at a low, a low enough price point to just send massive volume through a specific product that reaches the same target market as your hero product, then that's a massive opportunity. But it's only and this is a really key, and this is one of the things that we harp on, you know, brand fortress is that only works if you have a system in place on the back end for connecting with those customers. Right, like if you sell a million units of some item that you break even on, but you haven't collected any customer data for those people with a warranty registration or a contest registration or whatever it is on the back end, you just waste it a whole bunch of time.

Speaker 1: 21:29

You just waste it all that time Like even if you break even.

Speaker 2: 21:31

you know at least you don't lose money, man, the amount of time and effort that you've wasted because now you haven't taken advantage of that. So if you're going to have a tripwire product, then you better have a post-purchase process for getting those people on a list so that now you can sell them the hero product and then you can sell them those auxiliary products that have that extra margin, because you're selling on your website where you're not competing against everybody else for price, and so you can raise that margin a little bit. You know it's like you've got to have it in stages and those tripwire products make a difference, but they don't help you if you don't have a post-purchase process.

Speaker 1: 22:04

Yeah, or at least they're extremely challenging in having that post-purchase process, I mean, especially as ads get. I mean ads are going to continually get more expensive. You know whether I mean definitely on Amazon, but also on other. You know we see the same thing. You know Google, I think, is such a good list test for this If you look at Because this has a longer history and how much ad costs and CPCs have gone up on Google. You know, over the last 25 years. You know you can. We're going to see something very similar happen with Amazon.

Speaker 3: 22:38

It's already starting the same pattern. It's already starting the same pattern right now. You can watch it happening. The exact same thing that happened with Google Ads is happening with Amazon ads.

Speaker 2: 22:46

Oh yeah, we're easily paying four or five times what we were paying. You know, just you know five years ago, right.

Speaker 1: 22:54

Well, and I think that's, you know, one of the things that is probably going to be Then I'll bang the drum on, probably numerous times, which is building a brand, is really about building an asset. You know and think about it. You know, like building a house or you know any other you know kind of structure that increases in value. And I feel like we've been so spoiled, quite frankly, on Amazon, to where we see it more, as the last few years has almost been like a cash machine, where it's like, okay, well, I expect that if I, you know, it's like going to the casino, if I put it in a dollar, I want to get $3 out, and I should be able to put in that dollar every time and get $3 back. And there was a time when that was definitely true because there just wasn't a lot of competition. And you know, unfortunately, I think, that those days are over. I think the good news is, you know, back to our conversation we had earlier, which is that those people that can see, you know, a couple of years ahead and see that you know, building a real brand is where the value is going to be at that, there's going to be a lot of gold at the end of that rainbow.

Speaker 2: 24:16

Yeah, and not only in the short term. You know, not only in terms of the cash that you're drawing out of the business you know because you've built that brand but also in terms of the exit value. I mean, you know it is an actual truism that you know probably half of the money that you ever take out of your business is going to be at the point that you exit the business, if you decide to. I mean, a lot of people stay in the business. That's cool, you know. But recognize that. You know when you think about the amount of money that you have wrapped up in inventory and all of the various things that you're doing in the business, and that money is always wrapped up in that inventory. If you want to stay ahead of sales, you always have a significant amount of money wrapped up in inventory. And so you know, not only at the point of exit are you getting a multiple on the money that's coming out of that business, but you're also they're going to buy your inventory. You get all that money back. That's a large cash influx right at the point of exit. So but the thing is, at this point, if you haven't built a brand, then your exit value is going to be way lower than if you have actually built a solid brand that has a following, that has loyal customers, that has a subscriber list, that has, you know, a social media following, that has all of these things you know, outside of Amazon, you build that and you're going to be worth a fortune, you know, in comparison to what you're going to be worth if you haven't built that brand. And I would also say that part of the you know if you're looking forward at a potential exit cash flow like because this conversation has been primarily about pricing cash flow is king when it comes to an exit, like the valuation of your business, a lot of that is going to be based on how is cash flow from the business not just profit, but actual cash flow. And so if you're thinking about pricing and going back to that, you know if we can raise our profit, you know, and double our profit or even just increase the profit by, say, 50% on a product, which doesn't necessarily mean a massive increase in the retail price of the product then your cash flow becomes much better and you become a much more desirable asset for any potential buyer. So paying attention to that cash flow portion of the business is really pretty critical. Yeah, and I just I want to.

Speaker 1: 26:33

Go ahead, Matt.

Speaker 3: 26:35

Well, one thing that I wanted to go back on, one thing that I was thinking of that I didn't chime in, but Mike said if you don't have a good post purchase funnel in place, then things like a tripwire product doesn't do any good. Taking that a step further, if you're not launching new products, having that customer email list is a lot less valuable, because that's actually because you don't have to market to that person again because you have their contact information. So, mike, what I love about you and how you use your list, you use that asset is when you launch a new product, you first of all you bring the consumer in on that journey of designing the new product, but then, when you launch that new product, you have a list of hundreds of people that are waiting to buy it at full price, so which then increases the value of your brand, which then fortifies your brand, which then you get a higher multiple at exit. So I just wanted to throw that in there, that you also have to be launching other products to that audience too.

Speaker 1: 27:27

Yeah, that's a fantastic point. And the other thing that I was going to say is just to give an example of what you're talking about, mike, because people hear oh, in order to get 50% more profit, I need to increase my price by 50%. Well, you can take a simple example of, let's say, you have a product that's at $20 and you raise that price to $25. Well, if your net profit margin was $5, now you increase the price from $20 to $25, so you increase it by $5, you've doubled your net profits without changing anything else about that product, and I think so. We've talked a lot about the art of pricing and how important it is, both at a brand and a strategic level. The takeaway that I'd have for people as we wrap up this conversation is test your pricing. I've always been amazed at and surprised by the results of pricing in both directions. So we talked a lot about increasing pricing and I've definitely seen that recently, where we had a case where we increased the price by about 20%, we actually saw sales go up, where you don't hear a lot of those cases, but they definitely happen. So you want to test. And then the other side of things you really have to look at what's that net result and if you lower your price by a couple of dollars, you may get enough sales velocity to make up for that reduction in price. And so pricing is one of the biggest levers to pull, and you don't have to do every product at once and you can do tests where hey, especially when it's not Q4, that's a perfect time to test your prices for a week and look at your BSR and hey, did my BSR drop compared when I increased my price by $2,? Did my BSR? Did a stay steady, those types of things to really dial in what is the max price that your product will carry and understand that over time that will change as there's more competition, but also as you get more you know reviews and social proof and those types of things. You can demand a higher price point if you have, you know, a thousand reviews instead of 200 reviews.

Speaker 2: 29:44

Yeah, for sure, and you know what? Before we wrap up, just two things based on what you just said, john. So one I really like that idea of paying very close attention to the BSR. I was actually just talking to somebody the other day about this, because you know, if you, if you, if you change your pricing and the only thing you pay attention to is how many more sales did I make at this additional profit assuming you make more sales or less sales, whichever If that's the only thing you pay attention to and you don't look at BSR, then what you have an account for is how did sales within your niche change over that period? Because if you go through a period where, for whatever reason, within your niche, sales volume increased overall and you increased along with it, well then it, then you have to be able to, you know, understand your price didn't have any change, you know, like it wasn't the effect, right, you moved with the market. Now you could say, okay, well, but at least I didn't decline, right, my sales didn't go down. So I know that much. So at least I've got a higher profit at the same sales volume, right, essentially because the market, I just moved with the market, you know, but paying attention to BSR, because that's a comparison against all of the other products in your category and the volume that they were selling, that's really critical and I think we don't pay enough attention to that sometimes. But the other thing that I wanted to mention was in terms of that price point and you know what, honestly, I've lost it. So it was there and now it's gone.

Speaker 1: 31:17

So I'll let you think about it for a second and we'll turn to Matt. You know, when it comes to pricing, what is maybe, do you have, you know, like a tip or an action item for our listeners that you recommend, as they think about it, that they could test out for pricing?

Speaker 3: 31:34

Yeah, I mean so for me and it kind of goes with the life cycle of the product, like when I'm choosing pricing from the very beginning. First of all, I mean, obviously you take your margin into account, but I like to price it about as close to break even as possible when I first launch to get as much velocity as I can. But I already have my destination in mind and again, it's always at the top end of that top end of that price range. So I looked, I, I calculate, by looking at competitors, what the top end of the range is and where I think I can fit in and then start that part of my strategy when I'm pricing it at the very beginning. So pricing, like you said, John, it's one of the biggest levers that we can pull and I love being able to see, as I launch and as I get reviews and as my conversion rate increases, how far, how fast and how far I can push that envelope to get to that ultimate price point. So it's always part of my strategy from post launch all the way to mature product, and it's something that I test. And also that you were talking about your BSR. I also love looking at your conversion rate compared to the average in the search query performance report. To look at basically the same thing and I was just talking to a student just last week, same as you, mike, about what that looked like from a BSR standpoint but then also what did that look like from a conversion rate standpoint and search query performance report?

Speaker 1: 32:50

Yeah, great points. And I think you know my takeaway from that, matt, is that you know again, the influence of price on launch and beyond and through all those phases. And also, hey, if you have not tested the price on your product in the last three to six months, it's probably you probably need to do a price test in one direction, the other, you know, for a few days or even a week to see, just to see what happens, because otherwise you're leaving a lot of money on the table.

Speaker 2: 33:18

Yeah, that's fair, and I actually did think of what it was I was going to say, and it was specific to what you were getting at, john and that is when we're talking about the fact that pricing can be one of the biggest levers that we can actually pull one one direction or another. One of the reasons that it's such a big lever, you know to pull, is that it the Amazon algorithm pays so much attention. I think we forget about that, in the sense that Amazon's algorithm is solely dedicated to the amount of money that Amazon can make over the entirety of all of the sales that are going to go through in any particular day. Like that is the algorithm, Like we can say it's about you know, serving the customer and it's you know getting the best price for them and all. And yes, to some degree, that's true, right, but at the end of the day, amazon is the best price for them. So, at the end of the day, amazon is concerned with one thing Over the course of a day, on the number of sales that we can run through, how much profit are we going to be able to pull out of all of those sales? So, if you think about it from the standpoint of that. If you're always looking at that, the higher the price that you charge, then if you can still pay attention to some sales volume on that right Like if you can raise your price and the sales volume really doesn't change then think about that from Amazon's point of view. They get to charge you a fee based on the percentage of your sale. They're charging a referral fee. So if you can raise your price and your conversion rate stays the same, then why would they not highlight your product over another product that sells at a lower price point, which means they make less money. So if you think about organic ranking, you have to test to see if I raise my price, can I maintain my CTR and my CBR? How much do they change? Maybe they even go up, you know like you don't know until you try it. But the point is, even if they you know, if they at least stay the same and you raise your price point, it is almost a guarantee that Amazon is going to rank you better because they're going to make more money on your product.

Speaker 1: 35:26

Absolutely, absolutely. That is a fantastic point and I do want to wrap up this episode, but I see two episodes coming in our future for people that are listening. One is on the influence that price has on ranking and the other one is pricing strategy for launching, because I think that there's a ton of things to be mentioned there. I mean, we didn't even get into, you know, prime, exclusive Discounts coupon would have their own strategy strikeout pricing. There's a lot of things around pricing that again, I think this is a really big lever that can really move your brands in a fantastic direction that doesn't get pulled enough by brands or at least experimented with.

Speaker 3: 36:10

So I think I think we can all agree. We can all agree that pricing is not static and it should never be static. Not for any brand, not for any product. Pricing is not static 100%.

Speaker 1: 36:20

And then the other takeaway that I want for the audience is you know we talked about those triple layer products and products having different roles. And if you don't have some way of building your audience off of Amazon, you know we offer a course for free called the after purchase funnel course, in order to help people set that up. That is another way that you can really take advantage of building your brand over the long term. So that way you have a lot more flexibility with how you do your pricing. So if you haven't checked that out, I definitely recommend you check that out on our website, and I could definitely see that we're going to have some more episodes on pricing coming in the future, For sure.